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Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

arstechnica.com

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Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#11

Post by sarchertech »

guywithahat wrote: post #4

This reads more like it's a single employees gripe than a real thing that's happening. They're not using the metrics in performance reviews, and it's a new AI tool that AWS probably wants legitimate usage data out of. That said, if you can't figure out how to use AI in a software job you should look into it. Not using AI at this point is a lot like not using CAD as an architect.

I think it’s real. I’m at a huge SV tech company and at least half the people here are “token maxing”.

AI is genuinely useful for many tasks. But 2x or greater business value from engineering orgs isn’t it. And even if it was business are terrible at measuring value added on an individual basis.

What they can measure though is token use. I’ve heard the same thing from other large companies my friends work for.

It’s bad enough that I’ve moved a significant amount of money out of US large-cap stocks.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#12

Post by riknos314 »

guywithahat wrote: post #4

This reads more like it's a single employees gripe than a real thing that's happening. They're not using the metrics in performance reviews, and it's a new AI tool that AWS probably wants legitimate usage data out of. That said, if you can't figure out how to use AI in a software job you should look into it. Not using AI at this point is a lot like not using CAD as an architect.

Amazon has far more roles than just software. PMs, FC area managers, managers - if your job involves writing anything you're expected to be using AI in some capacity.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#13

Post by fg137 »

guywithahat wrote: post #4

This reads more like it's a single employees gripe than a real thing that's happening. They're not using the metrics in performance reviews, and it's a new AI tool that AWS probably wants legitimate usage data out of. That said, if you can't figure out how to use AI in a software job you should look into it. Not using AI at this point is a lot like not using CAD as an architect.

"They're not using the metrics in performance reviews" means almost nothing. It doesn't mean managers at every level are not frequently looking at those numbers. Anyone from Amazon will tell you how much "hint" they get from management about using those tools.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#14

Post by bigstrat2003 »

guywithahat wrote: post #4

This reads more like it's a single employees gripe than a real thing that's happening. They're not using the metrics in performance reviews, and it's a new AI tool that AWS probably wants legitimate usage data out of. That said, if you can't figure out how to use AI in a software job you should look into it. Not using AI at this point is a lot like not using CAD as an architect.

> That said, if you can't figure out how to use AI in a software job you should look into it. Not using AI at this point is a lot like not using CAD as an architect.

When LLMs are capable of actually doing a good job, then it might be like that. We are not there yet, and we may never be.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#15

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Analemma_ wrote: post #7
x187463 wrote: post #2

Measuring token usage as a productivity metric is like measuring keystrokes. Don't mind me, just over here rolling my face on the keyboard for an hour so I can take Friday off... ...except each keystroke has an associated cost, the sum of which may equal or exceed my salary.

What's nuts is how many intelligent people— people who would say "of course 'LOC written' is a terrible measure of developer productivity, of course only a dysfunctional company run by morons would do that"— have immediately bought into this. Amazon has token use mandates, I've heard Google has token use "leaderboards", friends at startups say they all get graded on tokens used. It's like watching your sensible, leve…

> collective madness

mass hysteria perhaps?

There used to be a time where people used to die from dancing too much (from my understanding in which hey I can be wrong, I usually am): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_plague_of_1518

I think that although we wish to consider ourselves as smart and really intelligent but we run on biological machines and clocks which evolutionary have not much of a difference since 1518 or even the times when we used to hunt and forage for that matter.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#16

Post by _bypa »

The fact that management signed off on measuring AI use through token usage shows how incompetent management really is, including in allegedly technical conmpanies like Amazon. Tokenmaxxing was an entirely expected and rational response. IOW You measure employees in stupid ways, you're going to get stupid behaviour as a consequence.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#18

Post by HPsquared »

Analemma_ wrote: post #7
x187463 wrote: post #2

Measuring token usage as a productivity metric is like measuring keystrokes. Don't mind me, just over here rolling my face on the keyboard for an hour so I can take Friday off... ...except each keystroke has an associated cost, the sum of which may equal or exceed my salary.

What's nuts is how many intelligent people— people who would say "of course 'LOC written' is a terrible measure of developer productivity, of course only a dysfunctional company run by morons would do that"— have immediately bought into this. Amazon has token use mandates, I've heard Google has token use "leaderboards", friends at startups say they all get graded on tokens used. It's like watching your sensible, leve…

It's a test of practical intelligence.

Re: Amazon employees are "tokenmaxxing" due to pressure to use AI tools

#19

Post by greesil »

Analemma_ wrote: post #7
x187463 wrote: post #2

Measuring token usage as a productivity metric is like measuring keystrokes. Don't mind me, just over here rolling my face on the keyboard for an hour so I can take Friday off... ...except each keystroke has an associated cost, the sum of which may equal or exceed my salary.

What's nuts is how many intelligent people— people who would say "of course 'LOC written' is a terrible measure of developer productivity, of course only a dysfunctional company run by morons would do that"— have immediately bought into this. Amazon has token use mandates, I've heard Google has token use "leaderboards", friends at startups say they all get graded on tokens used. It's like watching your sensible, leve…

Some people respond to incentives. The rest of us are just trying to do our jobs and will probably be fired and then later consumed by the basilisk. We are living in an age of extremophiles.
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