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Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

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Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#11

Post by nephihaha »

6stringmerc wrote: post #4
decimalenough wrote: post #2

The article gives short shrift to the real real crisis: you need to read 12 paragraphs down to find a casual mention of the "sexual-abuse bankruptcy", which also explains the precipitous 2020 collapse in membership in the chart that is prominently shown up top. Turns out parents aren't too keen on sending their kids into camps that have reported 92,000 cases of sexual abuse (and how many cases were not?).

Actually the 2020 drop in membership is more closely tied to the disproportionate “voices” of the LDS membership who did everything possible to change the culture of the organization to suit their ends. Yes the abuse issue is real, but don’t discount the Mormon influence. As a group, they have serious psychiatric issues (the most medicated state in the US by a huge margin) and frequently use dishonesty whenever it su…

That is a very sectarian comment. Whatever you might think of Mormonism the religion, never confuse it with the membership who come in all shapes and sizes. (A large proportion of people in Utah aren't even LDS, at least 40% or more in some areas, and depression is a major issue throughout the other Rocky Mountain areas.)

There is some good evidence by the way that the LDS leadership got wind of the abuse compensation claims before they became prominent, which is why they disaffiliated. It may also be cost cutting, because the Mormon church is providing less and less money for activities of all sorts.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#12

Post by nephihaha »

quantummagic wrote: post #10
vintermann wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm out of the loop on this, what changes did the LDS want?

The LDS wanted it to continue to be more of a faith-based organization, and also objected to combining boys and girls together into the same program. Ultimately they left the organization at the end of 2019, taking about 20% of the membership with them.

A lot of Scout groups are church based and not only with the LDS.

I have heard that the LDS church got wind of abuse claims within scouting before they hit the mainstream. They have their own abuse scandals just now so probably didn't want to fight that war on two fronts. Either that or cost cutting, which is a major feature of modern Mormonism, except where temple construction is concerned.

Scouting hasn't taken off in Mormon churches much outside the USA by the way. Not really in the UK.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#13

Post by stavros »

nephihaha wrote: post #11
6stringmerc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the 2020 drop in membership is more closely tied to the disproportionate “voices” of the LDS membership who did everything possible to change the culture of the organization to suit their ends. Yes the abuse issue is real, but don’t discount the Mormon influence. As a group, they have serious psychiatric issues (the most medicated state in the US by a huge margin) and frequently use dishonesty whenever it su…

That is a very sectarian comment. Whatever you might think of Mormonism the religion, never confuse it with the membership who come in all shapes and sizes. (A large proportion of people in Utah aren't even LDS, at least 40% or more in some areas, and depression is a major issue throughout the other Rocky Mountain areas.) There is some good evidence by the way that the LDS leadership got wind of the abuse compensatio…

Can't this argument be applied to every group that has more than one member?

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#14

Post by meetingthrower »

bawolff wrote: post #7

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their…

Former Eagle Scout here -- I agree a bit with this analysis. The absolute best parts of it for me were the high adventure camps, backpacking, etc. The absolute worst where the Monday meetings. Depending on the vibe of the troop your activities bias one way or the other.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#15

Post by JuniperMesos »

quantummagic wrote: post #10
vintermann wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm out of the loop on this, what changes did the LDS want?

The LDS wanted it to continue to be more of a faith-based organization, and also objected to combining boys and girls together into the same program. Ultimately they left the organization at the end of 2019, taking about 20% of the membership with them.

You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#16

Post by valleyjo »

meetingthrower wrote: post #14
bawolff wrote: post #7

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their…

Former Eagle Scout here -- I agree a bit with this analysis. The absolute best parts of it for me were the high adventure camps, backpacking, etc. The absolute worst where the Monday meetings. Depending on the vibe of the troop your activities bias one way or the other.

Once you earn it you are an Eagle Scout for life. So you are an Eagle Scout not a “former” Eagle Scout. At least that’s what I was thought!

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#19

Post by bsenftner »

cbdevidal wrote: post #18

Looks like membership peaked in 1971. Add that chart to the list: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

I remember, my older brother wanted to be an Eagle Scout, and I was of the age to initially join. Some respected counter culture person, I don't think I was him, but someone like George Carlin, started talking about the boy scouts being where men scouted boys. That was it, the boy scouts were instantly "uncool".

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#20

Post by naijaboiler »

decimalenough wrote: post #2

The article gives short shrift to the real real crisis: you need to read 12 paragraphs down to find a casual mention of the "sexual-abuse bankruptcy", which also explains the precipitous 2020 collapse in membership in the chart that is prominently shown up top. Turns out parents aren't too keen on sending their kids into camps that have reported 92,000 cases of sexual abuse (and how many cases were not?).

i disagree with you. The author is pointing at deeper cultural issue of lack of candor that unaddressed allows things like sexual abuse to flourish. It is an organization that is not willing to tackle serious or face hard things head on. Yeah and their product sucks, so improved marketing won't save it.
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