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America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

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Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#11

Post by Zigurd »

markovs_gun wrote: post #5
expedition32 wrote: post #3

When people talk about how they want manufacturing back they conveniently forget the pollution.

Stuff has to be made somewhere. This argument is essentially predicated on the idea that it's okay for some places to be polluted and for some people to have to deal with it but not for other places and people. What you're really saying is "When people talk about how they want manufacturing back, they conveniently forget the pollution impacts people who live here instead of China and India, where it's totally okay."…

Stuff is made in response to demand. That can feel like an inevitability especially if you look at the failure of interdiction of drug trafficking. But that's no excuse to give up on harm reduction and demand shaping. Cigarette smoking hasn't disappeared, but the costs it imposes on healthcare has been reduced successfully. The same can be done to reduce the freeriding on ecological damage.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#12

Post by Zigurd »

derriz wrote: post #9
markovs_gun wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff has to be made somewhere. This argument is essentially predicated on the idea that it's okay for some places to be polluted and for some people to have to deal with it but not for other places and people. What you're really saying is "When people talk about how they want manufacturing back, they conveniently forget the pollution impacts people who live here instead of China and India, where it's totally okay."…

When people extol the virtues of manufacturing, I’m always reminded of the poll where 80% of Americans say that the country would benefit from a bigger manufacturing base but only 25% are interested in actually working in manufacturing. This isn’t an American thing btw - I’ve had arguments with brits and others who argue passionately that the country has been destroyed by the relative decline in manufacturing but whe…

America is pretty good at creating an underclass they can force into less desirable jobs using the prison industrial complex.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#13

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

pfdietz wrote: post #10
c0balt wrote: post #4

I feel for the people living there and being affected by the pollution. The long term effects of chemical pollution are ugly. But the CEO in the intro just seems like an odd choice. PFAS were known to cause issues for a long time, if you continued to use them for years then it is in your back too. Being "surprised" this might eventually affect your own product line just seems naive. You might have trusted 3M but just…

> PFAS were known to cause issues for a long time Has this actually been confirmed, or is this just the precautionary principle in action?

[flagged]

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#15

Post by echelon »

I drive through Dalton anytime I visit Chattanooga (a cool hipster city on the border of Georgia and Tennessee). The scale of manufacturing there is wild. There are so many factories.

Dalton makes something like 70-80% of the carpet in the world. They've had carpet factories there since I was a kid, but they're starting to expand into lots of other industries.

They've begun massively ramping up on solar panel production, for instance.

It used to be the only city between Chattanooga and Cobb County (in the Atlanta metro), but now factories have sprung up throughout the I-75 corridor from Acworth to Calhoun. And they're putting them up at breakneck pace.

You can easily see all the factories on a satellite view. Just look at the I-75 corridor [1].

The folks working in these factories are making good money. They're able to afford 2,000 square foot homes in the rural towns they live in.

This little city is doing $10B in GDP. It's impressive if you've ever driven through there.

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6185909,-84.9776839,50698m/d...

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#17

Post by sixie6e »

In this society, appearance, convenience, and justifying one's existence with unnecessary, destructive labor are more important than the ecosystems which support them. Humans are the invasive, destructive species.

Also(I'm absolutely not taking corporate side here), she says, "I feel like, I don’t know, almost like there’s a blanket over me, smothering me that I can’t get out from under." because of PFAS levels but then look at the corporate products/chemicals she covers her body in daily, and accepts money from others to do the same. If you are going to be outraged, at least be consistent about it.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#19

Post by Avicebron »

sixie6e wrote: post #17

In this society, appearance, convenience, and justifying one's existence with unnecessary, destructive labor are more important than the ecosystems which support them. Humans are the invasive, destructive species. Also(I'm absolutely not taking corporate side here), she says, "I feel like, I don’t know, almost like there’s a blanket over me, smothering me that I can’t get out from under." because of PFAS levels but t…

Ultimately it's because we've (as people) let corporations have too much of influence in politics and daily life. As such they will continue to sociopathically enshittify everything around them without compunction because the only guiding axis is "line must go up". Everyone can be absolve themselves from any wrong doing with the banal "I was just following orders" when the orders were to make the line increase at any cost.

We need a corporate death penalty. Probably combined with something that will put the fear of God in anyone who thinks only along the axis of profit.

EDIT: grammer

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#20

Post by echelon »

derriz wrote: post #9
markovs_gun wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff has to be made somewhere. This argument is essentially predicated on the idea that it's okay for some places to be polluted and for some people to have to deal with it but not for other places and people. What you're really saying is "When people talk about how they want manufacturing back, they conveniently forget the pollution impacts people who live here instead of China and India, where it's totally okay."…

When people extol the virtues of manufacturing, I’m always reminded of the poll where 80% of Americans say that the country would benefit from a bigger manufacturing base but only 25% are interested in actually working in manufacturing. This isn’t an American thing btw - I’ve had arguments with brits and others who argue passionately that the country has been destroyed by the relative decline in manufacturing but whe…

Dalton has been the worldwide leader in carpet manufacturing since before I was born. Multiple generations of people have worked in those factories. They earn good money and can afford big houses and savings.

You should talk to the people of Dalton. They're really proud of it. The first thing they tell you is they're from the "carpet capital of the world". Without fail they will mention that to you. It's so ingrained that it's part of their identity.

I don't think they'd be happy to lose their jobs for knowledge work or anything else.

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