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The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

theguardian.com

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Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#11

Post by antonvs »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #6
antonvs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then, if you do not plan to ever go to the US you can just forger about your US nationality and do not file any documents there, including taxes (which you pay in the country you are in, and hush away your US citizen obligations). This is illegal from a US perspective. US personal income tax is on worldwide income, regardless of where a citizen happens to be living. Some countries have mutual agreements with the US…

> This is illegal from a US perspective Yes. It also need to be enforceable. Take GDPR. If say a US website serving pages to the EU does not follow it at all, or even does everything the other way (collection, ...) the only thing the EU can do is wave their finger. Except if the site has options in the EU. If you cannot enforce a law it is either dead, or you resort to bully actions like the US does (an example was T…

> or you resort to bully actions like the US does

Yes, so your point is? You seem confused.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#12

Post by bad_username »

The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#13

Post by BobaFloutist »

bad_username wrote: post #12

The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.

It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China.

Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries. Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s).

Oh also our lazy, clout-chasing fourth estate bears a significant portion of the blame, though I'm convinced their initial contributions were accidental.

No grand conspiracy, just a lot of assholes and idiots and people who should have known better found out that it doesn't take all that much power to damage institutional trust, and got addicted to the sensation of destruction.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#14

Post by suburban_strike »

bad_username wrote: post #12

The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.

It's not organic. A country's occupants are only taught that they are evil and should be ashamed of themselves as a means of subjugation after they've been conquered.

Self-destruction is the point of critical theory, and the explicit goal of its architects. For some reason this curriculum is only pushed on western countries.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#16

Post by suburban_strike »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #13
bad_username wrote: post #12

The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.

It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China. Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries. Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s). Oh also our laz…

> alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China.

This is absurd.

The alt-right doesn't do anything. They have no power or funding and are suffering actual casualties through repeated assassinations. Pim Fortuyn was murdered, Trump's survived a few attempts, Charlie Kirk was murdered, 7 German AfD candidates mysteriously dropped dead before the election, and something like 30 politicians were outright murdered in Mexico ahead of the last election. To say nothing of the bodies of dead whistleblowers that have been piling up.

You say the alt-right are the bad guys, yet they're the only ones getting killed in broad daylight over demands to...enforce immigration law? Investigate NGO fraud? And all of these deaths just so happen to align to keep neo-Marxist agents in power across the west. Nothing to see here, I guess.

You cite an "informal coalition" between a bunch of unrelated groups while simultaneously blaming everything on the stupidity and greed of the electorate. You're not making a coherent argument, just throwing a bunch of lies at the OP and seeing what sticks.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#17

Post by angoragoats »

suburban_strike wrote: post #16
BobaFloutist wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China. Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries. Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s). Oh also our laz…

> alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China. This is absurd. The alt-right doesn't do anything. They have no power or funding and are suffering actual casualties through repeated assassinations. Pim Fortuyn was murdered, Trump's survived a few attempts, Charlie Kirk was murdered, 7 German AfD candidates mysteriously dropped dead before the election, and something like 30 politic…

> You say the alt-right are the bad guys, yet they're the only ones getting killed in broad daylight over demands to...enforce immigration law? Investigate NGO fraud?

Speaking of lies, this is a big one.

1) Heather Heyer, Renee Good, Alex Pretti, just to name three that were killed in broad daylight. Two of them were killed by fascist paramilitary agents of the government in broad daylight. So the first part of this statement is blatantly untrue.

2) I’m not sure if you differentiate the “alt-right” from the current fascists who are in power, but the president has publicly called for the extermination of an entire civilization. So that’s something they want to do, not just the things you list. So again, another lie, or at least a deliberate omission if I’m trying to be charitable.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#18

Post by TFNA »

retired wrote: post #9

I would never, ever renounce my citizenship voluntarily. It gives me access to what I call home, my friends, my family, a massive job market. Politics are a bit rough right now but imagine if that clears up in ten years time and you can't go back. Keeping my passport will always assure that I can get back to The Netherlands.

Your Dutch citizenship doesn’t come with an obligation to laboriously file taxes to your home country even if you live abroad, and you are in no risk of being denied a bank account in any EU country. This is something US passport holders uniquely have to deal with, hence the phenomenon of dual citizens renouncing the US citizenship.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#19

Post by palmotea »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #13
bad_username wrote: post #12

The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.

It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China. Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries. Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s). Oh also our laz…

> It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China.

> Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries.

Yeah, I kinda agree with this. You definitely have people who hate their domestic political enemies so much that they'll throw themselves in with foreign powers who oppose them.

> Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s).

Perpetrators? No, come on. People seem to love to hate on the common man for some reason (maybe beating down on other common men makes some common men falsely feel bigger). But they're just easy targets, because they can't fight back.

The real "perpetrators" if you can call them that, are the elite people in places of power, who are trusted with responsibility but too-often prioritize their own parochial interests.

Case in point: the Democratic party. They've been screaming from the mountaintops since 2016 about the dangers of authoritarianism, many of which have come to pass. But what do they do? Compromise to form a broader coalition to meet the existential threat? No, of course not. Instead they cater to divisive special interests; wag their fingers at everyone they turn off who doesn't vote for them; and look no father than hoping they can eek out narrow, unstable partisan victories by turning out their base.

Re: The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship

#20

Post by BrandoElFollito »

antonvs wrote: post #11
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is illegal from a US perspective Yes. It also need to be enforceable. Take GDPR. If say a US website serving pages to the EU does not follow it at all, or even does everything the other way (collection, ...) the only thing the EU can do is wave their finger. Except if the site has options in the EU. If you cannot enforce a law it is either dead, or you resort to bully actions like the US does (an example was T…

> or you resort to bully actions like the US does Yes, so your point is? You seem confused.

My point is that the US law is limited to the US, whatever "illegal" is for the US is contained to its land.

The exception being bully tactics they still can afford (less and less, thank you Mr Trump), or the fear countries have to annoy the US and who agree to extraterritoriality, as it is the case with the tax law.

Not sure where you seem to be confused.

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