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A scene graph needs 2 mutable references, and has nothing to do with ownership. Same issue exists with GUI's. The pattern that Rust forces is to always request a reference, which incurs a performance penalty while retrieving the same reference again and again and again.
Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
> Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing Isn't the crux that Rust does those things without a garbage collector, that's the novel part? Someone correct me if I'm wrong (likely), but I think all those languages have garbage collectors, which Rust doesn't.
The thing about it being optional in some languages is that it's an experiment, but one that as a feature it really pays off the more code in the ecosystem is compliant to ownership tracking. For rust, it's the vast majority of it (with opt out explicitly findable..) For languages offering it optionally, it's harder to assemble the full benefit.
This is all well and dandy for some usage scenarios but breaks in others, eg. scene graphs and GUI's. A scene graph needs 2 mutable references, and has nothing to do with ownership. Same issue exists with GUI's. The pattern that Rust forces is to always request a reference, which incurs a performance penalty while retrieving the same reference again and again and again.
Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
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Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
> Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing Isn't the crux that Rust does those things without a garbage collector, that's the novel part? Someone correct me if I'm wrong (likely), but I think all those languages have garbage collectors, which Rust doesn't.
That's not quite how it works in various languages. You appear to be thinking of the garbage collector as something inseparable from the language.
Both Dlang and Vlang have optional garbage collectors, that can be turned off. In the case of Vlang, none of its libraries depend on the garbage collector. Vlang offers optional (flexible) memory management, somewhat similar to Nim (but they presently don't have optional ownership).
In the case of Julia and Vlang, their optional ownership is new and experimental. Dlang's optional ownership has been around for some years now, showing that it could be done.
Dlang and Vlang allow you to choose the type of memory management (along with some other languages) that you would like to use. Vlang does it by command line flags. You can turn off garbage collection and turn on ownership.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing Isn't the crux that Rust does those things without a garbage collector, that's the novel part? Someone correct me if I'm wrong (likely), but I think all those languages have garbage collectors, which Rust doesn't.
> without a garbage collector, that's the novel part? That's not quite how it works in various languages. You appear to be thinking of the garbage collector as something inseparable from the language. Both Dlang and Vlang have optional garbage collectors, that can be turned off. In the case of Vlang, none of its libraries depend on the garbage collector. Vlang offers optional (flexible) memory management, somewhat si…
Until you need a library that was written with the assumption of using a garbage collector.
Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
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Earlier quoted context omitted.
> without a garbage collector, that's the novel part? That's not quite how it works in various languages. You appear to be thinking of the garbage collector as something inseparable from the language. Both Dlang and Vlang have optional garbage collectors, that can be turned off. In the case of Vlang, none of its libraries depend on the garbage collector. Vlang offers optional (flexible) memory management, somewhat si…
> Both Dlang and Vlang have optional garbage collectors, that can be turned off. Until you need a library that was written with the assumption of using a garbage collector.
Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
In fact, we can see this "defaults matter" problem in Rust as well. Note that Rust by-default assumes that code is running in a context where a dynamic allocator is available, but allows one to opt-out of this ("no_std" mode). Code written for embedded devices or baremetal contexts uniformly opt into this mode, but because it's not the default, you can't just pull any old library off the shelf and expect it to work for you, so the ecosystem is much smaller and less mature. Defaults matter.
Rust is becoming less special in this area. Languages such as Dlang, Vlang, and Julia have added optional ownership and borrowing. As these offerings are optional, many can see this as greater programmer freedom to decide what to use for their projects, with languages that are easier to use or read.
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Better example might be statically typed languages. They were harder to use at first, but now with good type inference and features like generics, they are much more ergonomic than at first. The accessibility gap between static and dynamic languages has narrowed with time and maybe we can expect that user-friendliness of ownership will also improve like that.