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To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

arstechnica.com

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Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#11

Post by FloorEgg »

jjmarr wrote: post #9
FloorEgg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students are making a rational economic calculation: they need a degree to get a job. Except it's not true. They don't need a degree to get a job. Maybe they need a degree to get a very specific job, but then they will be doing what the degree taught, and so they might as well learn how to do it. This whole "I need a degree to get a job" is the problem. It's how people end up with $200k in student loans working fro…

Most white collar jobs require a university degree. They don't care what it's in or your GPA or if you understood history/philosophy/English. Just that you have literally any degree.

I don't think this is true anymore.

I agree some do, but I am very skeptical about most. It's also changing rapidly.

To be clear I'm not disagreeing that a manufacturing engineer role would require a degree in engineering (and countless other examples). I'm pushing back on specifically "most white collar jobs require any degree regardless of what it is".

I believe that assumption is incorrect and harmful.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#12

Post by xg15 »

jjmarr wrote: post #9
FloorEgg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students are making a rational economic calculation: they need a degree to get a job. Except it's not true. They don't need a degree to get a job. Maybe they need a degree to get a very specific job, but then they will be doing what the degree taught, and so they might as well learn how to do it. This whole "I need a degree to get a job" is the problem. It's how people end up with $200k in student loans working fro…

Most white collar jobs require a university degree. They don't care what it's in or your GPA or if you understood history/philosophy/English. Just that you have literally any degree.

This sound pretty insane on its own. If you don't care about the content of the degree at all, what does the degree even prove?

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#13

Post by jdalgetty »

I'm in an online course right now (teachers college) that requires weekly discussions. I feel like every discussion is just AI responding to AI. As a student I think it's lame, I'm sure the profs do too. I'm not totally against AI usage as it is incredibly helpful with spelling and grammar, what I hate is reading meaningless, vague and uninteresting discussion posts week after week. There is nothing personal or interesting about anything anyone posts because its all done by AI.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#14

Post by clejack »

asdff wrote: post #5
clejack wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have the right question, but I think the answer is a resounding "no." Old thinking towards education seems irrelevant in modern times. Children should be taught the basics of mathematics ,language, and technology as a necessity for interacting in the real world. This should include arithmetic up to applied algebra, grammar, reading, and, ideally, critical thinking. These core topics should have traditiona…

A big part of schooling that I didn't realize until I was an adult is learning self discipline. The boring terrible class you hate and can't pay attention for is a feature, not a bug. You ought to learn how to get over yourself, be able to dig in on something uninteresting, and get what you need to get done. That is probably the single greatest skill schools teach people entering adult hood. Unfortunately it only tak…

Rest assured, if you force students to learn basic english and math, the vast majority of students will experience this as being forced to study things they don't care about.

The difference with what I'm suggesting is that they won't be forced to learn about 7 or 8 different things they don't care about at the same time.

The allocation of teachers' time will be better with a more constrained curriculum, and the classes where students choose to learn about a subject will be a more engaged.

Framing learning things you're uninterested in as "learning to get over yourself" is odd. This isn't an ego problem, and dictating personality traits to such an extent is a questionable goal.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#16

Post by jjmarr »

FloorEgg wrote: post #11
jjmarr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most white collar jobs require a university degree. They don't care what it's in or your GPA or if you understood history/philosophy/English. Just that you have literally any degree.

I don't think this is true anymore. I agree some do, but I am very skeptical about most . It's also changing rapidly. To be clear I'm not disagreeing that a manufacturing engineer role would require a degree in engineering (and countless other examples). I'm pushing back on specifically "most white collar jobs require any degree regardless of what it is". I believe that assumption is incorrect and harmful.

It's truer than ever because of applicant tracking systems that allow HR to automatically filter out people without degrees before they are even seen by the hiring manager.

In combination with oversaturation of university graduates, it's an easy box HR can tick to lower the applicant pool.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#17

Post by jjmarr »

xg15 wrote: post #12
jjmarr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most white collar jobs require a university degree. They don't care what it's in or your GPA or if you understood history/philosophy/English. Just that you have literally any degree.

This sound pretty insane on its own. If you don't care about the content of the degree at all, what does the degree even prove?

It proves you could sit through 4 years of university and not fail out.

Since basically anyone can graduate high school nowadays, this proves you put at least some effort into your education without being forced to.

It doesn't really matter if it's low signal, just that it narrows the applicant pool.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#18

Post by FloorEgg »

jjmarr wrote: post #16
FloorEgg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true anymore. I agree some do, but I am very skeptical about most . It's also changing rapidly. To be clear I'm not disagreeing that a manufacturing engineer role would require a degree in engineering (and countless other examples). I'm pushing back on specifically "most white collar jobs require any degree regardless of what it is". I believe that assumption is incorrect and harmful.

It's truer than ever because of applicant tracking systems that allow HR to automatically filter out people without degrees before they are even seen by the hiring manager. In combination with oversaturation of university graduates, it's an easy box HR can tick to lower the applicant pool.

If that's true, it's painfully tragic.

Still comes off as jaded and pessimistically biased. Not representative of whole white collar, just some segment in it.

It's VERY different than my direct experience, and indirect exposure including statements I've read about hiring policies at attractive employers.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#19

Post by lacker »

ChatGPT is a great resource for learning things, if you really want to learn.

I hope that this leads us to shift education towards helping people learn things, when they do want to learn. Instead of forcing people to learn things that they do not want to learn.

Re: To teach in the era of ChatGPT is to know pain

#20

Post by hackable_sand »

FloorEgg wrote: post #7
IChooseY0u wrote: post #4

> They may view an instructor as an opponent standing in the way of the grade they want. And they see “getting the right answers” as the goal of education because that’s how you secure that grade. But that’s no more true than thinking that logging a count of reps is the goal of bodybuilding. The author is essentially saying "you're doing education wrong" to students who never signed up for the author's version of wha…

> Students are making a rational economic calculation: they need a degree to get a job. Except it's not true. They don't need a degree to get a job. Maybe they need a degree to get a very specific job, but then they will be doing what the degree taught, and so they might as well learn how to do it. This whole "I need a degree to get a job" is the problem. It's how people end up with $200k in student loans working fro…

That may all be true

But you still need a degree to get a job

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