Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

thenewatlantis.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–17 of 17 posts

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#11

Post by cyclopeanutopia »

krapp wrote: post #10
cyclopeanutopia wrote: post #2

It's 2026, all gods should be dead by now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ you can't kill an idea, because it was never alive. Humans are just primates hardwired for selection bias and paredolia. We rationalize but we aren't rational beings, we're primarily driven by emotion and ego. We're smart enough to recognize death but also smart enough for mortal fear. And that's even before we get to the vast political and cultural power of religion which even in this "atheistic" age still…

Yeah, it's a figure of speech expressing my disappointment.

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#12

Post by zoogeny »

nathan_compton wrote: post #6

I don't care that its 2026 and people are tired of atheists. I still think religion isn't the answer. I refuse to believe that pretending things, no matter how good they make us feel, is the right thing for human beings to do. I'll be ground up by the machine before I bow down again to an imaginary god. I've never met an adult convert who gave off any other vibe than "I am afraid of grappling with the world as it is,…

I don't think the entirety of the phenomenon can be explained by fear, and in complex issues such as this a single variable analysis is suspect.

I would encourage you to think of forces other than fear that might be driving observed behavior. It is only in this way that you have any hope of creating an alternative attractive force that satisfies the needs that are currently being served by religion.

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#13

Post by nathan_compton »

zoogeny wrote: post #12
nathan_compton wrote: post #6

I don't care that its 2026 and people are tired of atheists. I still think religion isn't the answer. I refuse to believe that pretending things, no matter how good they make us feel, is the right thing for human beings to do. I'll be ground up by the machine before I bow down again to an imaginary god. I've never met an adult convert who gave off any other vibe than "I am afraid of grappling with the world as it is,…

I don't think the entirety of the phenomenon can be explained by fear, and in complex issues such as this a single variable analysis is suspect. I would encourage you to think of forces other than fear that might be driving observed behavior. It is only in this way that you have any hope of creating an alternative attractive force that satisfies the needs that are currently being served by religion.

Open to suggestions.

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#14

Post by zoogeny »

nathan_compton wrote: post #13
zoogeny wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the entirety of the phenomenon can be explained by fear, and in complex issues such as this a single variable analysis is suspect. I would encourage you to think of forces other than fear that might be driving observed behavior. It is only in this way that you have any hope of creating an alternative attractive force that satisfies the needs that are currently being served by religion.

Open to suggestions.

One obvious one, is that people crave community and religion provides a ready made and welcoming community.

But this is an exercise that is best performed by you. It is about changing your own attention. Next time you come across some "adult convert", instead of looking for signs that prove your assumptions (that they are looking for comfort), look for some positive sign.

Consider how you are reacting to this very comment chain. Are you thinking "there is no possible way any person could ever be attracted to religion for any other possible reason than fear and need for comfort". When you asked me for suggestions were you actually curious? Bring that same curiosity to your next interaction. Demand of your own attention to see a positive reason.

And consider that if you are not able to notice the positive intentions in the actions of another, that might be a you problem.

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#15

Post by nathan_compton »

zoogeny wrote: post #14
nathan_compton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open to suggestions.

One obvious one, is that people crave community and religion provides a ready made and welcoming community. But this is an exercise that is best performed by you. It is about changing your own attention. Next time you come across some "adult convert", instead of looking for signs that prove your assumptions (that they are looking for comfort), look for some positive sign. Consider how you are reacting to this very co…

People might be afraid for all sorts of reasons and seek religion as a way of allaying their fear, sure. "I want a pre-made community" is just another way of saying "I am afraid of being alone."

There is nothing wrong with wanting a community, but there is something wrong with telling people something is true when it is not just to get one. I get that people benefit from religion in a lot of ways. I just don't think that undermining basic questions of what we do and do not, what we can and can not, know, is worth those benefits.

A person who, in the privacy of their bathroom, looks in the mirror and repeats comforting lies to themselves to make themselves feel better is substantially less offensive to me than someone who publicly professes bullshit to make themselves feel better. If this seems blunt, ask yourself why we live in a world which gives automatic credence to ridiculous beliefs if and only if they happen to align with the ridiculous beliefs of a few sanctioned groups.

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#16

Post by zoogeny »

nathan_compton wrote: post #15
zoogeny wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One obvious one, is that people crave community and religion provides a ready made and welcoming community. But this is an exercise that is best performed by you. It is about changing your own attention. Next time you come across some "adult convert", instead of looking for signs that prove your assumptions (that they are looking for comfort), look for some positive sign. Consider how you are reacting to this very co…

People might be afraid for all sorts of reasons and seek religion as a way of allaying their fear, sure. "I want a pre-made community" is just another way of saying "I am afraid of being alone." There is nothing wrong with wanting a community, but there is something wrong with telling people something is true when it is not just to get one. I get that people benefit from religion in a lot of ways. I just don't think…

> "I want a pre-made community" is just another way of saying "I am afraid of being alone."

Do you think people join other communities out of fear? Someone who decides to play magic the gathering, join a dance class, a book reading group, or art class?

If people join these kinds of communities sometimes out of fear of being alone, and sometimes for other reasons, why do you not extend the same generous interpretation to people who join religious communities?

Some people see no value in learning art, music, literature or poetry. Some people do. Some people see no value in exploring spiritual topics, some people do.

Consider everything you said and apply it to improv classes. What changes?

Re: The Cassandra of 'The Machine'

#17

Post by nathan_compton »

zoogeny wrote: post #16
nathan_compton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might be afraid for all sorts of reasons and seek religion as a way of allaying their fear, sure. "I want a pre-made community" is just another way of saying "I am afraid of being alone." There is nothing wrong with wanting a community, but there is something wrong with telling people something is true when it is not just to get one. I get that people benefit from religion in a lot of ways. I just don't think…

> "I want a pre-made community" is just another way of saying "I am afraid of being alone." Do you think people join other communities out of fear? Someone who decides to play magic the gathering, join a dance class, a book reading group, or art class? If people join these kinds of communities sometimes out of fear of being alone, and sometimes for other reasons, why do you not extend the same generous interpretation…

Because religion in particular involves the public proclamation and veneration of of bullshit as truth. At least most kinds.
Post reply on HN