Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation • Hacker News Board

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#11

Post by ilaksh » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 5:51 AM UTC

Why do we tolerate the middle men at all? There are actually a number of easy ways to sell digital books online without an Amazon or anyone else.

For example, http://pulleyapp.com/ is $6 a month. That's it. You can price your ebook whatever you want. You don't have to give another company a cut of each purchase.

There's also http://www.shopify.com/

There are open source solutions like http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/easy-digital-downloads/

The architecture of the internet is actually outdated. I mean, it may take a few years for people to realize this, but the fact that we have to go to a specific web domain, which is tied to specific hardware or private network, in order to search for things like Kindle books (or Google for practically everything else), is creating monopolies that aren't beneficial to consumers or retailers.

What we want is a content-centric internet that works more like peer-to-peer networking. Wikipedia has one variation of the idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-centric_networking

Usually people dismiss that idea out of hand in the context of e-commerce because they don't understand how peer-to-peer networking can be secure or private. But in fact it can be, it has to be, and it will be. Its going to take everyone a little while to figure that out though.

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#12

Post by evoxed » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 6:06 AM UTC

cal5k wrote: post #7

MaysonL wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy a lot of books, mainly used, mainly physical. In most cases, I find that I can get as good or better price vie Abebooks as through Amazon. Amazon, like Walmart, while it saves money for consumers, takes a lot of that money out of producers' margins. Selling through Amazon is a low-margin business.

You are aware that Amazon owns Abebooks?

Since this doesn't seem to be common knowledge (and it isn't easily referenced from abebooks.com alone), they were acquired by Amazon in 2008 along with a minority (40%) stake in LibraryThing. See here: http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/01/amazon-to-acquire-abebooks/

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#13

Post by ryen » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 6:14 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #11

Why do we tolerate the middle men at all? There are actually a number of easy ways to sell digital books online without an Amazon or anyone else. For example, http://pulleyapp.com/ is $6 a month. That's it. You can price your ebook whatever you want. You don't have to give another company a cut of each purchase. There's also http://www.shopify.com/ There are open source solutions like http://wordpress.org/extend/plug…

As far as e-books go - the problem is 'reach'. Pulley and Shopify just don't have the reach that Amazon does. Authors are still trying to figure out the best ways to monetize without going through publishers and it will take time for their thinking, and Amazon's competitors, to mature.

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#14

Post by ChrisNorstrom » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 6:50 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #11

Why do we tolerate the middle men at all? There are actually a number of easy ways to sell digital books online without an Amazon or anyone else. For example, http://pulleyapp.com/ is $6 a month. That's it. You can price your ebook whatever you want. You don't have to give another company a cut of each purchase. There's also http://www.shopify.com/ There are open source solutions like http://wordpress.org/extend/plug…

We tolerate middle men because it's easier for a single human with a singular vision to create an easily searchable marketplace of creators' content than it is for the creators themselves to come together in a cooperative and form it themselves.

TLDR; Humans are good at following leaders and complaining about results rather than working together and leading themselves.

(Presidential elections are a perfect example of this)

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#15

Post by flyinRyan » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 9:38 AM UTC

revelation wrote: post #3

manicdee wrote: post #2

With Amazon playing the game of undercutting the entire market until everyone else is dead, the only way to win is not to play. Every single purchase from Amazon — book or otherwise — is a vote for Bezos' monopoly over your culture.

In what world is pricing a digital version of a book slightly below its dead-tree variant "undercutting"? This is not publishers shutting out Amazon, this is publishers shutting out digital books, and they have been doing so all along, consistently pricing ebooks at the same or higher price of print copies and colluding with Apple in a price fixing scheme.

Why would an ebook be cheaper? Is it not more convenient? Price comes from value, not what it costs to make so being easier to produce has nothing to do with the price (well, except the price floor).

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#16

Post by lucian1900 » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 9:53 AM UTC

flyinRyan wrote: post #15

revelation wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is pricing a digital version of a book slightly below its dead-tree variant "undercutting"? This is not publishers shutting out Amazon, this is publishers shutting out digital books, and they have been doing so all along, consistently pricing ebooks at the same or higher price of print copies and colluding with Apple in a price fixing scheme.

Why would an ebook be cheaper? Is it not more convenient? Price comes from value, not what it costs to make so being easier to produce has nothing to do with the price (well, except the price floor).

It is not, as long as it has DRM.

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#17

Post by jimmybook » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 10:25 AM UTC

Amazon is definitely changing the game. It's forcing the likes of Tim Ferriss to reach out aggressively non-traditional online outlets to promote the book, leading up to the release date on the 20th. Like he says, if this little experiment works, it can be disruptive - that is, publishers and booksellers alike will have to rethink their current distribution channels.

Thing can only lead to one thing from a macro perspective - a "land grab" of online distribution channels in the upcoming years.

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#18

Post by antiterra » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 4:24 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #11

Why do we tolerate the middle men at all? There are actually a number of easy ways to sell digital books online without an Amazon or anyone else. For example, http://pulleyapp.com/ is $6 a month. That's it. You can price your ebook whatever you want. You don't have to give another company a cut of each purchase. There's also http://www.shopify.com/ There are open source solutions like http://wordpress.org/extend/plug…

There's value to some creators in having a marketplace in order to get exposure and to provide a convenient browsing experience for customers. Independent musicians who give away their music for free are often grouped into netlabels[1] so that people can find them and discover other works that are somehow related.

A large portion of applications on the Mac App store were and are available directly from the creators, but plenty of authors elected for a presence there. More independent models, such as Cydia and Ubuntu Software Center still take a cut of sales.

Review sites might be one way around the issue-- say, if it was possible to browse GoodReads and every book you were interested in had a link to whatever distribution method the author chose. But then, if GoodReads was the go to site for books, it might start charging a cut too, or prioritizing sponsored links.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netlabel

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#19

Post by vampirechicken » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 4:27 PM UTC

flyinRyan wrote: post #15

revelation wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is pricing a digital version of a book slightly below its dead-tree variant "undercutting"? This is not publishers shutting out Amazon, this is publishers shutting out digital books, and they have been doing so all along, consistently pricing ebooks at the same or higher price of print copies and colluding with Apple in a price fixing scheme.

Why would an ebook be cheaper? Is it not more convenient? Price comes from value, not what it costs to make so being easier to produce has nothing to do with the price (well, except the price floor).

Are you seriously suggesting that the cost of the physical book, and it's construction has nothing to do with the price of the book at the bookstore?

Re: Shunning Amazon, Booksellers Resist a Transformation

#20

Post by flyinRyan » Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 9:44 AM UTC

vampirechicken wrote: post #19

flyinRyan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would an ebook be cheaper? Is it not more convenient? Price comes from value, not what it costs to make so being easier to produce has nothing to do with the price (well, except the price floor).

Are you seriously suggesting that the cost of the physical book, and it's construction has nothing to do with the price of the book at the bookstore?

It has one thing to do with it: it sets the price floor. If the market value of that book is not past the price floor then there's no point in making it.

But some people who don't get how markets work think prices are: how_much_work_I_did+how_much_materials_cost+profit_amount_I_want. It's not. The item is priced based on the value it is perceived to provide.