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Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

wired.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#11
post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

Lots of industries do this. Patents are useful when it's obvious what your idea is, and where it's easy for people/competitors to have have a poke inside. Like a vacuum cleaner or a non-reflective mobile-phone screen coating, or one-click or something like that.

But for industries where that's not the case, like rockets (my current) or to pick another example from a previous job, magnetic bearings for sub-sea tubo-machinery installations like natural gas compressors[1], it makes no sense to file a patent. It's much easier to keep it a secret, because it's not like your competitors are going to scuba-dive down to the compressor control cabinet, whip out a JTAG and see how you've implemented your control loop on an FPGA.

Likewise, if you do patent it, it's very difficult to prove an infringement for the same reasons.

So essentially, in industries where it's not the case that your competitors can see what you've done, secrets over patents is the norm, in my experience, and has been for while.

[1] Mag bearings use electromagnetic stators and magnetic collars on the shaft to levitate the shaft inside a bit of spinning equipment. This means it's entirely non-contact, dramatically reducing wear, especially useful on difficult-to-service installations like sub-sea.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#12
post #6
post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

One of the supposed points of patents is that the inventor shares knowledge with the world in exchange for temporary monopoly. If the patent is not enforced (such as in China), then there is no incentive to file. It might be smarter, from a business standpoint, to just keep the knowledge to yourself.

As long as you can keep control over your organization. With anything significantly large enough, it's probably not too hard to slip a spy in.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#13
post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

A lot of companies choose to keep their intellectual property as "trade secrets" instead. (Like the Coke recipe, etc.) Just like SpaceX, it can often be better for the company than a patent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_secret

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#14
Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX?

I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship requirements for security reasons. As he mentions in the interview, they wouldn't want China stealing their ideas, for example. And I know a lot of the job postings on SpaceX list "US citizen or permanent resident" as a requirement, but I didn't know if this was a hard and fast rule, or whether exceptions are possible.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#15
post #10
post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

It's actually worse than that. Tech companies routinely use a combination of patents, trade secrets and copyright to make the shared knowledge (patents) basically useless but an exceptionally good defensive and offensive weapon. I recall this came up with Intel and other companies reverse-engineering the Netburst bus. EDIT: removed point about first-to-file as prior art would largely invalidate such attempts beyond a…

My (limited) understanding is you can still argue prior art to invalidate the patent. First to file would only come up if both SpaceX and a Chinese company had patents and went to court.

The wiki article expounds a little: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act...

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#16
post #14

Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX? I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship require…

Try applying and find out. You have nothing to lose but a little time.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually worse than that. Tech companies routinely use a combination of patents, trade secrets and copyright to make the shared knowledge (patents) basically useless but an exceptionally good defensive and offensive weapon. I recall this came up with Intel and other companies reverse-engineering the Netburst bus. EDIT: removed point about first-to-file as prior art would largely invalidate such attempts beyond a…

My (limited) understanding is you can still argue prior art to invalidate the patent. First to file would only come up if both SpaceX and a Chinese company had patents and went to court. The wiki article expounds a little: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act...

>>First to file would only come up if both SpaceX and a Chinese company had patents and went to court.

If they went to court in the same country, you mean.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#19
post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

Note that this has a double meaning. He's not just talking about "the Chinese" and their well known cavalier attitude toward intellectual property, he's specifically talking about the government of China, which is ultimately the operator of the Long March launch vehicles. Suing sovereign governments for patent infringement has historically not been a winning proposition.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#20
post #14

Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX? I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship require…

Try applying and find out. You have nothing to lose but a little time.

I won't be in a position to apply for another two years, but if I thought there was even a chance of being accepted there're things I could do in the meantime to make myself a much more attractive applicant.
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