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The first airplane fatality

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Re: The first airplane fatality

#11

Post by netsharc »

floam wrote: post #8
expedition32 wrote: post #3

When KLM started flying Amsterdam-Batavia in the 1930s it was dangerous but people preferred it to spending weeks on a ship.

Preferred like people today prefer their private jet? It cost more than your typical annual salary at the time. I just read that the trip was still a 5 day journey, involving 20+ stops and spinning that takeoff and landing roulette wheel quite a bit.. The novelty factor might have been just as big a deal as time savings. It was something cool to try as an ultra wealthy globe trotter.

This page (1) reports 9 stops (between start and destination):

> The plane took off – for the 1st leg of the flight from Amsterdam to Batavia – on 30 April. The schedule: Budapest 30 April, Athens 1 May, Cairo 2 May, Baghdad 3 May, Jask 4 May, Jodhpur 5 May, Calcutta 6 May, Tavoy 7 May, Medan 8 May and arriving in Batavia on 9 May.

This page(2) claims a max speed of 190km/h. Budapest to Athens is 1130 km apart, so if the plane was flying around 150km/h, it's a 7 hour trip for that segment. Ouch. At least the passengers probably had a nice dinner and slept every night in a nice hotel...

(1) https://dutchaustralianculturalcentre.com.au/archive/dutch-a...

(2) https://aircraftinvestigation.info/airplanes/Fokker_F.VIIa.h...

Re: The first airplane fatality

#12

Post by WalterBright »

floam wrote: post #8
expedition32 wrote: post #3

When KLM started flying Amsterdam-Batavia in the 1930s it was dangerous but people preferred it to spending weeks on a ship.

Preferred like people today prefer their private jet? It cost more than your typical annual salary at the time. I just read that the trip was still a 5 day journey, involving 20+ stops and spinning that takeoff and landing roulette wheel quite a bit.. The novelty factor might have been just as big a deal as time savings. It was something cool to try as an ultra wealthy globe trotter.

I read that it is statistically more dangerous to fly on a private jet than a commercial one.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#14

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

> The crash had fractured his skull. At the time, neither man wore head protection, as aviation helmets were not yet standard equipment. It’s kinda wild to me how reliable we are at having to learn the hard way to wear a helmet for each new sport or endeavour.

In fairness, quite a few failure modes for aircraft do not matter much if you are wearing a helmet or not.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#15

Post by Retric »

emmelaich wrote: post #10
behehebd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article title says plane but in the text it says powered flight.

But not "non human-powered" flight? If Icarus flapped a little, that counts.

If you can’t maintain altitude without losing significant airspeed, you’re just falling.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#16

Post by dgoldstein0 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

> The crash had fractured his skull. At the time, neither man wore head protection, as aviation helmets were not yet standard equipment. It’s kinda wild to me how reliable we are at having to learn the hard way to wear a helmet for each new sport or endeavour.

So I looked up and discovered that bicycle helmets became a common thing in the 1970s. Perhaps motorcycles were earlier. But either way I have to ask - what did people wear helmets for in 1909? Im thinking that most helmet usage came later.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#17

Post by pgreenwood »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #16
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

> The crash had fractured his skull. At the time, neither man wore head protection, as aviation helmets were not yet standard equipment. It’s kinda wild to me how reliable we are at having to learn the hard way to wear a helmet for each new sport or endeavour.

So I looked up and discovered that bicycle helmets became a common thing in the 1970s. Perhaps motorcycles were earlier. But either way I have to ask - what did people wear helmets for in 1909? Im thinking that most helmet usage came later.

I think they were fairly common for things like gladiatorial games, jousting, etc.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#18

Post by defrost »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #16
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

> The crash had fractured his skull. At the time, neither man wore head protection, as aviation helmets were not yet standard equipment. It’s kinda wild to me how reliable we are at having to learn the hard way to wear a helmet for each new sport or endeavour.

So I looked up and discovered that bicycle helmets became a common thing in the 1970s. Perhaps motorcycles were earlier. But either way I have to ask - what did people wear helmets for in 1909? Im thinking that most helmet usage came later.

Helmet usage, as in protective headware for general melee war and one on one fighting, dates back to the bronze age.

Hard hats, of assorted kinds for general protection while working, date back to the 1890s and became more commonplace ~1920 (ish) onwards in construction, mining, and ship building industries.

* Helmets: https://www.battlemerchant.com/en/blog/the-evolution-of-hist...

* Hard Hats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_hat

I suspect there are more early European hard hat examples to be found than are cited in the wikipedia article.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#19

Post by lovecg »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #14
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

> The crash had fractured his skull. At the time, neither man wore head protection, as aviation helmets were not yet standard equipment. It’s kinda wild to me how reliable we are at having to learn the hard way to wear a helmet for each new sport or endeavour.

In fairness, quite a few failure modes for aircraft do not matter much if you are wearing a helmet or not.

You’d be surprised. Small aircraft crashes, if control is not lost before hitting the ground, are much more similar to car crashes than to large airliner crashes. For example, a recent “innovation” that saved a lot of lives was making shoulder belts (as opposed to lap only belts) standard.

Re: The first airplane fatality

#20

Post by lovecg »

WalterBright wrote: post #12
floam wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preferred like people today prefer their private jet? It cost more than your typical annual salary at the time. I just read that the trip was still a 5 day journey, involving 20+ stops and spinning that takeoff and landing roulette wheel quite a bit.. The novelty factor might have been just as big a deal as time savings. It was something cool to try as an ultra wealthy globe trotter.

I read that it is statistically more dangerous to fly on a private jet than a commercial one.

Definitely, you can’t get much safer mode of travel than a modern airline. There are some humorous statistics that hour for hour taking a shower is more dangerous.

Accidents generally go up as you move down the scale of regularly scheduled airlines -> charter -> private with professional crew -> private flying.

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