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New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

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Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#11
post #4

Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.

One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…

My first serious programming job was at a start up and the owner asked me this question. I was caught off guard, of course I wouldn’t! I couldn’t really explain why at the time, but it essentially revolved around the fact that I was young and optimistic. 25 years later, I’m not so sure. Now, said optimism has almost vanished and there are days pushing seems like the path to least suffering, but I also feel it’s unethical for one person to decide for everyone else.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#12

Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.

We live in a sandbox. Unless we decide to work together to escape it, then there is no point in humanity to exist. All we essentially do is produce rubbish, poo and suffering.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God what an awful prospect. How about when you push the button it only removes the button pushers, so the rest of us are free to continue enjoying our existence.

Because that line of "enjoying your existence" making no mention of the monumental harm we cause to every biome on the planet is exactly the kind of selfishness that the button pushers would like to eradicate.

And I’d call entertaining thought experiments such as this “having such an open mind your brain falls out of the back of your head”.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God what an awful prospect. How about when you push the button it only removes the button pushers, so the rest of us are free to continue enjoying our existence.

The point is that continuing to enjoy your existence is inflicting a massive toll of suffering around the world, to both others humans as well as non-humans. I’m not saying I’d be one to push the button, but I think it’s worth trying to understand the mindset of someone who would. It’s very arguable that pushing it would be the ethical thing to do.

Not entirely convinced that outside the torment nexuses used in industrial meat farming, natural suffering is any lesser sans humanity.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#15

Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.

We live in a sandbox. Unless we decide to work together to escape it, then there is no point in humanity to exist. All we essentially do is produce rubbish, poo and suffering.

If you can’t find anything worthwhile here what makes you think you’ll find it out there?

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#16
post #5

Farming practices are already absolutely terrible. And for reasons of arbitrary weight increase, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine is used in the USA. Doesnt degrade when cooked, so humans also get fat from it amongst other bad side effects. Banned in most countries, but not the USA. This is also why pork export is banned in most countries. I know 1 person who is "allergic to pork". But European pork is fine.…

Ractopamine is authorized in Canada per the article you linked.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that line of "enjoying your existence" making no mention of the monumental harm we cause to every biome on the planet is exactly the kind of selfishness that the button pushers would like to eradicate.

Biomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are).

> Biomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are).

Where do you think animals live?

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#18
post #4

Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.

One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…

It's impossible to refute anecdotes purporting to represent populations based on what they might do in a hypothetical, and the people being described fade further out of tangible existence at every next layer of abstraction.

But Most Vegans I Know (tm) regard human life as valuabe, speak in terms of harm reduction, and tend not to fantasize about making Vault Tec real.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#19
post #5

Farming practices are already absolutely terrible. And for reasons of arbitrary weight increase, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine is used in the USA. Doesnt degrade when cooked, so humans also get fat from it amongst other bad side effects. Banned in most countries, but not the USA. This is also why pork export is banned in most countries. I know 1 person who is "allergic to pork". But European pork is fine.…

This is fascinating to me. I am allergic to pork (or I would say intolerant, when I eat it I get a headache and/or stomach ache). But I did try a piece of wild boar once, and was fine after that. I will have to look into this!

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a sandbox. Unless we decide to work together to escape it, then there is no point in humanity to exist. All we essentially do is produce rubbish, poo and suffering.

If you can’t find anything worthwhile here what makes you think you’ll find it out there?

It’s a meaningless question, there is no “out there”.
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