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Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

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Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#11

Post by forensic »

otakucode wrote: post #8

I would think this leads quickly to another question people might not want to answer... Does empathy increase the probability that the actions you decide to take will reduce or increase suffering? I am a fan of an old German saying: "Good intentions are the opposite of good actions." Every tragedy in human history that I know of was born from good intentions. Make society stronger, make the majority happier, make peo…

>Does empathy increase the probability that the actions you decide to take will reduce or increase suffering?

Interesting question. You are speculating about human psychology based on your understanding of history. Though you haven't cited any literature to back up your statements, and you haven't claimed that you have knowledge of any psychological literature, I still find your opinion valuable.

I've read some of the literature related to this question. Here is one thing it says: psychopaths are people who almost never feel empathy. They decide to take many actions and many of those actions have disastrous and extremely harmful consequences for those around them. The harm they do is grossly out of proportion compared to the harm committed by non-psychopaths. They are extremely exploitative and cruel and disproportionately commit a large number of crimes.

Psychopaths are now roughly defined, by researchers, as people who don't experience empathy. If you want to see how people without empathy behave, look no further than the psychopath.

It's not pretty, and it contradicts your idea here.

A psychologist who specializes in psychopathy is Dr. Stout, who wrote several famous books about this topic.

The research shows that lack of empathy absolutely and unequivocally leads to hurting others. The actions of those who lack empathy hurt other people in far greater proportion. Operating empathetically involves feeling rather than logical thinking and it requires being in touch with your emotions.

"The road to hell" phrase refers to INTENTIONS, not EMPATHY. Intentions are cognitive, they are analytical. So good intentions may be meaningless (if this proverb has any truth) because good intentions are NOT empathy. What is more important are the FEELINGS of empathy.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#12

Post by forensic »

_feda_ wrote: post #6

I misread the title as empathy encourages analytical thought, which would make sense, because in order to empathize one has to have enough analytic ability to see how another person is thinking, if that makes sense.

This is wrong. Empathy in the context of psychology is a feeling rather than a cognition. The kind of empathy you're talking about is a cognitive sort of empathy that doesn't involve a feeling process.

There is actually a distinction between bad empathy and good empathy.

Bad empathy is the type you describe: it allows you to understand other people's perspective. It can be bad because it allows you to exploit them. Think an expert salesman or a pick up artist who knows exactly how to see the world from the perspective of their victim.

Good empathy, on the other hand, includes the other as part of your feeling system. You will refuse to hurt the other because by hurting them you yourself feel bad. This is a non-logical feeling process rather than something analytical.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#13

Post by v0cab »

otakucode wrote: post #9
_feda_ wrote: post #6

I misread the title as empathy encourages analytical thought, which would make sense, because in order to empathize one has to have enough analytic ability to see how another person is thinking, if that makes sense.

You are correct, that analytical thought is necessary to have a shot at seeing how another person is thinking... but to believe that you have seen how another person is thinking requires only intuition. It's wrong, of course, wrong in drastic, often tragic, degrees as often as it is right (performs no better than random chance). This has been known for a long time in behavioral neuroscience. How we respond to another…

> It's hard for many to accept that their ability to read other people is only as accurate as flipping a coin, but that's what we've got evidence for.

Does anyone have any links that support this? Thanks if so.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#15

Post by Evbn »

otakucode wrote: post #8

I would think this leads quickly to another question people might not want to answer... Does empathy increase the probability that the actions you decide to take will reduce or increase suffering? I am a fan of an old German saying: "Good intentions are the opposite of good actions." Every tragedy in human history that I know of was born from good intentions. Make society stronger, make the majority happier, make peo…

Selection bias. Everything is done with good intentions, good things and bad things. Very few people set out to do the wrong thing from their perspective, and plenty of evil is done via cold calculus (think most of US foreign policy) that is defined by lack of empathy.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#16

Post by Evbn »

v0cab wrote: post #13
otakucode wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, that analytical thought is necessary to have a shot at seeing how another person is thinking... but to believe that you have seen how another person is thinking requires only intuition. It's wrong, of course, wrong in drastic, often tragic, degrees as often as it is right (performs no better than random chance). This has been known for a long time in behavioral neuroscience. How we respond to another…

> It's hard for many to accept that their ability to read other people is only as accurate as flipping a coin, but that's what we've got evidence for. Does anyone have any links that support this? Thanks if so.

It is easy and plenty fun to set up an experiment among your friends.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#17

Post by oftenwrong »

otakucode wrote: post #8

I would think this leads quickly to another question people might not want to answer... Does empathy increase the probability that the actions you decide to take will reduce or increase suffering? I am a fan of an old German saying: "Good intentions are the opposite of good actions." Every tragedy in human history that I know of was born from good intentions. Make society stronger, make the majority happier, make peo…

My father used to say that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Re: Empathy represses analytic thought and vice versa

#19

Post by xyzzy123 »

otakucode wrote: post #9
_feda_ wrote: post #6

I misread the title as empathy encourages analytical thought, which would make sense, because in order to empathize one has to have enough analytic ability to see how another person is thinking, if that makes sense.

You are correct, that analytical thought is necessary to have a shot at seeing how another person is thinking... but to believe that you have seen how another person is thinking requires only intuition. It's wrong, of course, wrong in drastic, often tragic, degrees as often as it is right (performs no better than random chance). This has been known for a long time in behavioral neuroscience. How we respond to another…

> How we respond to another persons face when they are feeling different emotions is extremely inaccurate and quite useless, but we are all weak to believing that our conclusions are valid.

Perhaps in experiments where one has to judge a stranger's emotions from a photo or under conditions of active deception.

I want to balance out your comment with the obvious though - that most normal people are able to tell when others are distressed, stressed, worried, happy and so on - and this requires no analytic effort whatsoever.

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