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Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

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11–20 of 57 posts

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#11
I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set.

I don't see the point of TypeScript either, I can make the LLM output JavaScript and the tokens saved not having to add types can be used to write additional tests...

The aesthetics or safety features of the languages no longer matter IMO. Succinctness, functionality and popularity of the language are now much more important factors.

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#13
post #8

I feel like if you need to utilize a tool like this, odds are pretty good you may have picked the Wrong Tool For the Job, or, perhaps even worse, the wrong architecture. This is why it's so important to do lots of engineering before writing the first line of code on a project. It helps keep you from choosing a tool set or architecture out of preference and keeps you honest about the capabilities you need and how your…

I disagree, using python for a web-server and something like celery for background work is a pretty common pattern. My reading of this is it more or less allows you to use Postgres (which you're likely already using as your DB) for the task orchestration backend. And it comes with a cool UI.

That's not the sort of architecture I'm referring to. I'm specifically talking about splitting your application layer between Elixir and Python.

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#14

I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set. I don't see the point of TypeScript either, I can make the LLM output JavaScript and the tokens saved not having to add types can be used to write additional tests... The aesthetics or safety features of the languages no longer matter IMO. Succinctness, functionality and popularity of…

So I know these are just benchmarks, but apparently Elixir is one of the best languages to use with AI, despite having a smaller training dataset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1EcfZSdCM and https://github.com/Tencent-Hunyuan/AutoCodeBenchmark/tree/ma...

Furthermore, it's actually kind of annoying that the LLMs are not better than us, and still benefit from having code properly typed, well-architected, and split into modules/files. I was lamenting this fact the other day; the only reason we moved away from Assembly and BASIC, using GOTOs in a single huge file was because us humans needed the organization to help us maintain context. Turns out, because of how they're trained, so do the LLMs.

So TypeScript types and tests actually do help a lot, simply because they're deterministic guardrails that the LLM can use to check its work and be steered to producing code that actually works.

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#15

I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set. I don't see the point of TypeScript either, I can make the LLM output JavaScript and the tokens saved not having to add types can be used to write additional tests... The aesthetics or safety features of the languages no longer matter IMO. Succinctness, functionality and popularity of…

> I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set.

I can't say if it works better with other languages, but I can definitely say both Opus and Codex work really well with Elixir. I work on a fairly large application and they consistently produce well structured working code, and are able to review existing code to find issues that are very easy to miss.

The LLM needs guidance around general patterns, e.g. "Let's use a state machine to implement this functionality" but it writes code that uses language idioms, leverages immutability and concurrency, and generally speaking it's much better than any first pass that I would manually do.

I have my ethical concerns, but it would be foolish of me to state that it works poorly - if anything it makes me question my own abilities and focus in comparison (which is a whole different topic).

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#17

I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set. I don't see the point of TypeScript either, I can make the LLM output JavaScript and the tokens saved not having to add types can be used to write additional tests... The aesthetics or safety features of the languages no longer matter IMO. Succinctness, functionality and popularity of…

LLMs work great with Elixir. Running tsc in a loop while generating code still catches type errors introduced by an LLM and it’s faster than generating additional tests. Elixir is also succinct and highly functional. If you can’t find a specific library it’s easier than ever to build out the barebones functionality you need yourself or use NIFs, ports, etc.

https://dashbit.co/blog/why-elixir-best-language-for-ai

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#18

We have a similar use case. All Elixir code base, but need to use Python for ML libraries. We decided to use IPC. Elixir will spawn a process and communicate over stdio. https://github.com/akash-akya/ex_cmd makes it a breeze to stream stdin and stdout. This also has the added benefit of keeping the Python side completely stateless and keeping all the domain logic on the Elixir side. Spawning a process might be slower…

I have one vibecoded ml pipeline now and I'm strongly considering just clauding it into Nx so I can ditch the python

Re: Bridging Elixir and Python with Oban

#20

I don't see the point of Elixir now. LLMs work better with mainstream languages which make up a bigger portion of their training set. I don't see the point of TypeScript either, I can make the LLM output JavaScript and the tokens saved not having to add types can be used to write additional tests... The aesthetics or safety features of the languages no longer matter IMO. Succinctness, functionality and popularity of…

So I know these are just benchmarks, but apparently Elixir is one of the best languages to use with AI, despite having a smaller training dataset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1EcfZSdCM and https://github.com/Tencent-Hunyuan/AutoCodeBenchmark/tree/ma... Furthermore, it's actually kind of annoying that the LLMs are not better than us, and still benefit from having code properly typed, well-architected, and split…

I don't think LLMs benefit from having code properly typed (at the call definition). It's costly to have to check a possibly remote file to check. The LLM should be able to intuit what the types are at the callsite and elixir has ~strong conventions that LLMs probably take advantage of
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