> Information was fed back into a central hub, the India House in Lisbon, where everything was stored under the crown's direct control to inform the next cycle of voyages. This system of feedback and adaptation was highly effective. It was accompanied by a rapid expansion in cartographic knowledge. This almost feels like state-sponsored R&D, 500 years ago.
Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
11–20 of 82 posts
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#12Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#13Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#14As a Brazilian, the whole improbable (and beautiful) history of Portugal raised by the "Navegações" and how badly they bottled the whole imperium (especially after the Brazilian independence, but one can argue that João VI opened the ports) and the sheer amount of lack of vision in not investing in production is something that will always amaze me. One can say that it was one of the longest imperiums in history (endi…
What do you mean? (Asking this as a Portuguese guy who really doesn't feel at home back there any more)
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
You would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glori…
I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#16It would be interesting to imagine a uchronic world where Portuguese has become the lingua franca of the world.
You would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glori…
Portugal was never interested in dominance of Europe - hard to project power to the centre when you're out on the far edge and have more of a navy than an army.
But the trade network was the first truly global network, and very much non-trivial.
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…
Yes and no. it's not like they ever extracted taxes from most of the natives living in the amazon jungle. Saying that you rule over people that have literally never heard of you is, IMO, stretching the definition of "rule" quite a bit :-)
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#18It would be interesting to imagine a uchronic world where Portuguese has become the lingua franca of the world.
You would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glori…
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
You would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glori…
I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…
Every time I meet a laid back, easy going and kind Portuguese person — which is most of them — I always think that explains their relatively unambitious world domination plans.
Re: Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
You would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glori…
I think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in wha…
> The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in what's today the 5th largest nation state by area. They also had to defend the longest coastline.
Conquering multiple ethnic Malay kingdoms - a number of whom were armed and backed by the Ottomans, Mughals, and Americans and had access to gunpowders, naval yards, literacy, and proto-industrialization - and unifying them into Indonesia is a Herculean task that I'd argue is much more complex than the Portuguese project in Brazil.