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Are You a Grumpy Developer?

blog.rickyrobinett.com

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Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#11

Post by shakes »

lnanek2 wrote: post #9

So let's say an app erases your hard drive if you use it the wrong way, but it is easy to fix with a registry tweak anyone can do. Should we really only drop a personal note to the author instead of warning everyone it sux0rs and having a discussion in public where people can become aware of the problem and work around? Pointing out problems with things is one of the most useful parts of communicating with others, an…

I definitely think there are times when you have to call things out in public. Your scenario is a perfect example of that. My general point is that I think we can be too quick to do it.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#12

Post by dasil003 »

Sometimes projecting an air of grumpiness is the most socially apropos way to keep people away from you when you need to focus intensely on difficult problems. It's one thing if you're talking to another developer or someone who at least has some sense of the focus that programming requires, but if you work with a fair number of non-technical people it's sometimes not enough to give an academic explanation. It's just in some people's nature to always ask a question in person or on the phone rather than email where it can be dealt with asynchronously. I am very friendly when the time is appropriate, but if it's not, and I allow interruption it is bad for everyone. Sometimes I even feel guilty for explaining that I need the vague and complex bug report in an email rather than casually delivered from my door frame. If, when necessary, I can simply repel people without breaking concentration than it's for the greater good.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#13

Post by mingmecca »

Grumpiness, at least for me, comes from the frustration of dealing with people who don't understand the ramifications of their change-requests. "Can this app run in offline mode?", "Can you make it run in 128k RAM?", "Your software doesn't work right if I run a butter knife across my motherboard when I start it up!"

What seems like a simple change to them is actually a large change to me, and the pushback/explanation burns through my emotional capital. Without that emotional capital I become grumpy.

I think it is also related to the fact that much of what software developers do is a waste of time. By this I mean that if the app or service was specced correctly the first time (by the end-user or project manager knowing what they wanted) then there wouldn't be so much backtracking or code getting thrown out. All that wasted effort tends to make one question what they're doing with their life and makes them grumpy.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#14

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

jarsj wrote: post #10

Autocomplete for "why steve jobs was a" gives "Jerk" as first result. Doesn't matter what the world perceives us. There is too little time to keep up with all the shit in the world. If one line email replies, coming to the point in a hour long meeting and ending it in 5 minutes is perceived by the rest as grumpiness, then let's be grumpy. And who says great developers don't have fun. They just don't mix it with work,…

This isn't about perception or having fun, it's about behaviour having a genuine negative impact on things.

Developers have a tendency to optimise for themselves or for what they perceive as important. Sure curt replies and cutting meetings short may be the right thing to do and often is, but in many instances they're the right thing for the developer rather than for everyone involved.

If these actions result in developers being seen as unapproachable then there are genuine consequences of that - developers will be consulted less (which long term will have a negative impact both on the organisation and on the developer who will ultimately have less influence than they might have), clarifications won't be sought or offered uninvited (which always comes back on developers) and so on.

In of itself any individual action is potentially defensible, but if the overall effect is to deter useful lines of communication within a team, that's going to work out worse for everyone.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#15

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

dasil003 wrote: post #12

Sometimes projecting an air of grumpiness is the most socially apropos way to keep people away from you when you need to focus intensely on difficult problems. It's one thing if you're talking to another developer or someone who at least has some sense of the focus that programming requires, but if you work with a fair number of non-technical people it's sometimes not enough to give an academic explanation. It's just…

How on earth do you get to "it's the most socially appropriate way"?

It's often the easiest and lowest effort for the developer, but what basically amounts to passive aggression is never going to be remotely sociably appropriate.

If you educate people you get a massively better outcome - you don't get interrupted when that's important to you and you're more likely to get valuable and useful interaction when that's acceptable.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#16

Post by theevocater »

lnanek2 wrote: post #9

So let's say an app erases your hard drive if you use it the wrong way, but it is easy to fix with a registry tweak anyone can do. Should we really only drop a personal note to the author instead of warning everyone it sux0rs and having a discussion in public where people can become aware of the problem and work around? Pointing out problems with things is one of the most useful parts of communicating with others, an…

I think the author is trying to point out that you don't have to be a jerk about it.

Its one thing to say "Hey guys when you run X, your computer literally catches on fire"

and another to say:

"HAY GUYS, AUTHER X SUX0RS AND THERE APP BLOWS. IT MAKES YOUR COMPUTER EXPLODE LOL"

I know I'm guilty of this sort of thing sometimes.

Anyway, I don't think the author is saying you can't criticize at all, just be critical in constructive ways.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#17

Post by CodeMage »

jarsj wrote: post #10

Autocomplete for "why steve jobs was a" gives "Jerk" as first result. Doesn't matter what the world perceives us. There is too little time to keep up with all the shit in the world. If one line email replies, coming to the point in a hour long meeting and ending it in 5 minutes is perceived by the rest as grumpiness, then let's be grumpy. And who says great developers don't have fun. They just don't mix it with work,…

Autocomplete for "why steve jobs was a" gives "Jerk" as first result.

That was kind. My first impulse was to see what autocomplete has to offer about blogs and bloggers. Autocomplete for "why bloggers are" gives "not journalists" as first result, whereas "why blog authors" comes up with "ask rhetorical questions". Not to mention the first result for "why blog writers are".

Seriously, let's not use Google autocomplete as an excuse to jump on a meme bandwagon.

There was a post and a discussion not so long ago (can't find it now, no matter how much I try) about how people in our line of work focus on the negative by nature of our work and how we receive negative feedback all the time. At least that discussion was interesting, whereas this post is a typical "don't be such a jerk" post. Not that I necessarily disagree with the content, but this has crossed beyond the "beating the dead horse" territory into that "inflict Peter Jackson gore films on the poor dead horse" place that, ironically, makes me even grumpier.

EDIT: Thanks to @mrdazm for providing the link to the "Be nice to developers" discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4631607

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#18

Post by aangjie »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #15
dasil003 wrote: post #12

Sometimes projecting an air of grumpiness is the most socially apropos way to keep people away from you when you need to focus intensely on difficult problems. It's one thing if you're talking to another developer or someone who at least has some sense of the focus that programming requires, but if you work with a fair number of non-technical people it's sometimes not enough to give an academic explanation. It's just…

How on earth do you get to "it's the most socially appropriate way"? It's often the easiest and lowest effort for the developer, but what basically amounts to passive aggression is never going to be remotely sociably appropriate. If you educate people you get a massively better outcome - you don't get interrupted when that's important to you and you're more likely to get valuable and useful interaction when that's ac…

Uhh. not to be grumpy, but i read socially apropos as socially relevant and not socially appropriate. Disclaimer: am biased towards the OP. sometimes grumpiness can keep people away and let your brain/attention free from figuring out having to find the socially appropriate response/action.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#19

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

mingmecca wrote: post #13

Grumpiness, at least for me, comes from the frustration of dealing with people who don't understand the ramifications of their change-requests. "Can this app run in offline mode?", "Can you make it run in 128k RAM?", "Your software doesn't work right if I run a butter knife across my motherboard when I start it up!" What seems like a simple change to them is actually a large change to me, and the pushback/explanation…

> By this I mean that if the app or service was specced correctly the first time (by the end-user or project manager knowing what they wanted) then there wouldn't be so much backtracking or code getting thrown out.

And if applications were written correctly the first time organisations wouldn't have to waste money on test teams or help desks and users wouldn't have to waste time dealing with application crashes and bugs, if developers could estimate project mangers wouldn't have to waste time replanning and writing exception reports when things overrun.

Until we're all perfect it's really best not to go down that route.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#20

Post by gearoidoc »

mingmecca wrote: post #13

Grumpiness, at least for me, comes from the frustration of dealing with people who don't understand the ramifications of their change-requests. "Can this app run in offline mode?", "Can you make it run in 128k RAM?", "Your software doesn't work right if I run a butter knife across my motherboard when I start it up!" What seems like a simple change to them is actually a large change to me, and the pushback/explanation…

So basically what you're saying is: it's everyone elses fault.

Seems like you need to improve communication in your org. and get more involved with the business side. The common denominator in all the problems you listed is you.

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