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11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

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Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#11
This really resonates with me. I have lived in Finland for 16 years and struggled with work-life balance whilst trying to learn one of the most difficult languages in the world. Unless you pass the language exam you can't apply for citizenship - no matter how long you've been here for.

And yet, the right-wing-ish coalition government is making hostile anti-immigration policies and increasing citizenship requirements - which I can't vote against.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#12
I’m an Irish citizen who lives in the UK. I’m entitled to vote for the upper house in Ireland (Seanad) and in both Uk and Scottish general elections due to our “special arrangement”. I have no plans to apply for citizenship, nor to leave the UK.

Honestly, it’s an incredibly privileged thing to be able to do and I think of it every time I vote. I am an ardent supporter of free movement of people. I genuinely think that voting in GEs should be restricted to citizens of the country (and that my exemption is unfair). Without that distinction, what is the difference between a long term resident and a citizen? Why would you ever go through it. The _citizens_ should vote for what country they want, and the residents (me) should decide do we still want to be a part of that world.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#14

You may have mobility but you are not a citizen of the host country, so therefore you should not have the right to dictate their laws. You are a welcome guest until you actually become a citizen (through whatever process they define).

How this is not obvious common sense surprises me. Otherwise significant portions of the population of any EU country could get jobs in another one and then start influencing its politics just because they "pay tax". Essentially colonising the country.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#15

You may have mobility but you are not a citizen of the host country, so therefore you should not have the right to dictate their laws. You are a welcome guest until you actually become a citizen (through whatever process they define).

Exactly. The article conflates free movement of people with federalism.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#17
post #13

You may have mobility but you are not a citizen of the host country, so therefore you should not have the right to dictate their laws. You are a welcome guest until you actually become a citizen (through whatever process they define).

[deleted]

The article is about EU. We had a few revolutions over here, but that wasn't one of them.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#18

One of the best arguments against immigration is that, if you allow people to move to your country, even as non-citizen guest workers, they will eventually demand political rights in your country using their physical presence in a democracy as a moral justification. In other words, the only way to keep foreigners from influencing the laws and norms you live under is to physically bar them from your polity entirely.

>One of the best arguments against immigration is that, if you allow people to move to your country, even as non-citizen guest workers, they will eventually demand political rights in your country using their physical presence in a democracy as a moral justification

That could just as easily be an argument against democracy. The Gulf monarchies have large numbers of non-citizen guest workers, in the case of the UAE over 80% of the population, but they don't have any of the problems western countries have with migrants, because migrants have no political power and aren't eligible for welfare.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#19

Plenty of US citizens are in a similar situation: namely those who are in territories that are not US States, like Puerto Rico. Some US nationals are not even US citizens: those from American Samoa carry US passports but are not considered citizens.

Not just them, but undocumented immigrants here pay close to $100 billion a year in taxes.

Immigrants as a broader category here in the US make up around 20% of our total tax revenue.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#20
This is a person who can vote in Slovakian elections, and through those elections vote for their EU representatives, but is too lazy to.

You may have missed this, because it is buried under a ton of verbiage that makes this tiny number of nonvoters like a social problem. So when this person says:

> [D]espite strong attachment to the European Union, mobile Europeans are less likely to participate in European elections [...] because each member state has different procedures, deadlines, and often inadequate public information.

They are obscuring the fact that the only rules that they need to know are Slovakian rules, and that they don't bother.

> I also repeatedly missed the deadlines to apply for postal votes in Slovakia.

Ideal person not to be voting. Really thinks that wealthy Slovaks living in the Netherlands have something important to say about Brexit (populism bad!), and that people who are too lazy to vote in European elections can lecture anyone else about the utility of the EU. Such a coddled class.

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