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Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

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Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#11
post #2

They always say it's about "AI," but it never turns out to be about AI. I wonder what's it about this time?

The collapse of the yen carry trade.

I have read that numerous places and it seems plausible but it is beyond my investing experience.

I think the new nominated Fed Chair is also a hard money advocate and is spooking USD alternatives (gold, silver, BTC, etc.) But hard money can be quite hard on the economy, so that could limit growth.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#12
post #3

Amazon missed earnings and promptly doubled down on AI spending: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-plans-200b-ai-spending... It is encouraging to see that investors are punishing what is the greatest misallocation of capital since the dotcom bubble. Investors have figured out that AI is limited to probabilistic and annoying chatbots that are for entertainment and for looking up trivia questions.

Why should anyone take your sensible first statement seriously if your second statement is so easily verifiably false?

Some of these AI critical posts really are an exercise in Gell Mann Amnesia, man.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#13

Question: does Amazon's retail business matter for analysts at all? It drives the majority of revenue for the company but a much, much smaller amount of profit. Does Wall Street care about Amazon's core business one iota?

It definitely boosts their overall value as a company. If one share equals a slice of "what the company is worth now" + future growth, steady long-run revenue sets a solid baseline for the stock price.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#14
post #3

Amazon missed earnings and promptly doubled down on AI spending: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-plans-200b-ai-spending... It is encouraging to see that investors are punishing what is the greatest misallocation of capital since the dotcom bubble. Investors have figured out that AI is limited to probabilistic and annoying chatbots that are for entertainment and for looking up trivia questions.

Oh boy, are you going to be in for a rude awakening. Might I ask what is your exposure? Because this does not line up with what I am witnessing day to day at all.

This type of commentary reminds me of the people during the dot com boom who were adamant that e-commerce was all film flam and would never take off.

Consider that it is possible that both (1) we are in an investment bubble and (2) we are underestimating the long term impact of LLMs and perhaps mispredicting where they will land.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#15

Question: does Amazon's retail business matter for analysts at all? It drives the majority of revenue for the company but a much, much smaller amount of profit. Does Wall Street care about Amazon's core business one iota?

Big revenue + small margins in a stable business, IMO, is a massive liability for the bottom line; any downturn in business and that becomes big revenue + big losses. Even if cloud is making money, it can wipe a lot of that out.

From the point of view of running an enterprise that lasts, though, diversification is important. Financially diversification is probably, in general, bad for EPS. But if you want to run a lasting empire, it's best to not tie it to just a narrow thing.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#16
post #2

They always say it's about "AI," but it never turns out to be about AI. I wonder what's it about this time?

wall street analysts are starting to realise that software companies shouldnt trade on a P/E of 300. DocuSign is currently valued at 30 times its annual earnings. Adobe is currently 16. Amazon is 28 -- has been as high as 50 recently. NVDA is 44. Investors are basically starting to realise that enterprise are not going to subscribe to software like DocuSign for 50 years. They'll probably just move to odoo or zohosign…

I've always found it confusing how run of the mill SaaS trades at multiples assuming decades of doing business. The amount of change in software businesses has been massive and being able to run a successful software business even for 15 years from 2010-2025 requires a great deal of strategy and foresight and more likely than not that's not enough. Considering how these dynamics have been accelerating as technology accelerates it just seemed so off that the market was landing on a 20-30x multiples for software businesses that don't have much moat (e.g. swathes of B2B CRUD apps).

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#17
post #3

Amazon missed earnings and promptly doubled down on AI spending: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-plans-200b-ai-spending... It is encouraging to see that investors are punishing what is the greatest misallocation of capital since the dotcom bubble. Investors have figured out that AI is limited to probabilistic and annoying chatbots that are for entertainment and for looking up trivia questions.

You’ll get downvoted for your second statement. I think investors are struggling to see how AI turns into more money for consumers if it. It’s one thing to exclaim how your productivity is up, but does that translate into more profit and larger customer base if you’re a business? I very much doubt consumers will pay more than dollars a month for an LLM and I also very much doubt the ad market can grow large enough to cover the spend on that (ad market is plenty big and driven by other economic factors)

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#18

Question: does Amazon's retail business matter for analysts at all? It drives the majority of revenue for the company but a much, much smaller amount of profit. Does Wall Street care about Amazon's core business one iota?

With tech companies, investors buy future growth, not stable businesses.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#19

Question: does Amazon's retail business matter for analysts at all? It drives the majority of revenue for the company but a much, much smaller amount of profit. Does Wall Street care about Amazon's core business one iota?

The margins on tech/cloud are just so astronomically higher than retail. Places like Walmart or Costco are fighting for IMO AWS should be spun out as a separate company.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#20
post #2

They always say it's about "AI," but it never turns out to be about AI. I wonder what's it about this time?

Every tech company assumed they would be the benefactors, not victims, of AI. And investors now see that without the alleged AI growth, these companies at best look like stable utilities, not high growth stocks. At worse companies look like they make highly replaceable software as software stops being a moat.

Moreover they look like large, inefficient organizations with a lot of human veto points that prevent innovation (requiring more human coordination is an anti moat now)

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