That's funny, I did LFS a few years ago and specifically chose the systemd version so I could better understand it. I don't think this is a huge deal, I believe the older versions of the document that include SysVinit will still be available for a long time to come, and people who want it will figure out how to muddle through. If at some point in the future things diverge to such a point where that that becomes untenable, someone will step up and document how it is to be accomplished.
Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
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Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#12LFS. Brings back so many painful memories. But then, learned so much.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#13That's funny, I did LFS a few years ago and specifically chose the systemd version so I could better understand it. I don't think this is a huge deal, I believe the older versions of the document that include SysVinit will still be available for a long time to come, and people who want it will figure out how to muddle through. If at some point in the future things diverge to such a point where that that becomes unten…
This decision means that no testing of SysVinit will be done in future LFS and BLFS versions. The onus will be on the experimenter each time, but my hope is that a body of advice and best practices will accumulate online in lieu of having a ''works out of the book'' SysVinit solution.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#14This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…
I am looking forward to UnixFromScratch and Year of Unix on the desktop as Linux more and more sells itself out to the overstuffed software virus that is System D.
I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but the systemd hate is so old and tiresome at this point.
I need my systems to work. Not once in my career have I experienced a showstopping issue with systemd. I cannot say the same for sysV.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#15>The second reason for dropping System V is that packages like GNOME and soon KDE's Plasma are building in requirements that require capabilities in systemd Do people who really uses LFS even want GNOME or KDE on their system ?
I would think people who use LFS are doing it for the learning experience and not necessarily for a daily driver OS.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am looking forward to UnixFromScratch and Year of Unix on the desktop as Linux more and more sells itself out to the overstuffed software virus that is System D.
I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but the systemd hate is so old and tiresome at this point. I need my systems to work. Not once in my career have I experienced a showstopping issue with systemd. I cannot say the same for sysV.
> Not once in my career have I experienced a showstopping issue with systemd. I cannot say the same for sysV.
I have had both ruin days for me. In particular the "hold down" when it detects service flapping has caused issues in both.
I use runit now. It's been rock solid on dozens of systems for more than a decade.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#17SysV init was the overengineered cousin to BSD init and I never liked it. Easily my least favorite of all init systems I've worked with over the last 30 years. On the flip side, daemontools or maybe runit were my favorites. Lots of good options for init/supervision tooling over the years and SysV was not among them.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am looking forward to UnixFromScratch and Year of Unix on the desktop as Linux more and more sells itself out to the overstuffed software virus that is System D.
I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but the systemd hate is so old and tiresome at this point. I need my systems to work. Not once in my career have I experienced a showstopping issue with systemd. I cannot say the same for sysV.
OP here. I was hoping we could avoid the interminable, infernal discussion of systemd vis-a-vis emotional states.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#19>The second reason for dropping System V is that packages like GNOME and soon KDE's Plasma are building in requirements that require capabilities in systemd Do people who really uses LFS even want GNOME or KDE on their system ?
Maybe? When I did LFS/BLFS I opted for an i3-gaps setup with a compositor and some other eye candy, and had a lot of fun tinkering. I suppose some folks might want the experience of building an entire DE from source, but that seems like a bit much.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#20This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…
I am looking forward to UnixFromScratch and Year of Unix on the desktop as Linux more and more sells itself out to the overstuffed software virus that is System D.
While I'll ignore the System D hyperbole, your point about Unix has merit.
I think the *BSD are also good, at least from an educational standpoint, with their relative simplicity and low system requirements. Since there is a lot of integration making a from scratch distro might take less material, but it could be supplemented with more in depth/sysadmin exploration.