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Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

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Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#11

Post by pixl97 »

philipallstar wrote: post #9
20260126032624 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much positive evidence for guilt is necessary before we decide that some man should be put away? The answer to this question is ZERO. We are human, after all (and the corollary is that no amount of evidence will tip the scale for someone we don't want to put away). How much positive evidence for guilt ought to be necessary for a society to remain moral/egalitarian/equitable is a different question entirely.

Zero evidence is required to lock someone up?

Correct. The only thing required to lock someone up is power.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#12

Post by throwaway314155 »

hibikir wrote: post #6

The analysis forgets the very first problem after someone is killing criminals visibly: Light relies on TV to find them. You could tell it's Japan without doing any math about time zones or anythING, as TV itself brings in the bias. To pretend you are elsewhere, you have to be consuming foreign news to even begin to have a chance to hide yourself

Have you seen the show/read the manga? That's precisely the first tactic L uses against Light - he broadcasts that he has precise knowledge that he's somewhere in the Kanto region of Japan based on this timing. It's also mentioned in the article which you claim forgets to cover this.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#13

Post by GavinMcG »

20260126032624 wrote: post #8
SilverElfin wrote: post #7

> How much positive evidence for guilt is necessary before we decide that some man should be put away? Isn’t this what “beyond a reasonable doubt” is doing? It’s obviously not precise but it’s an intention of the current system.

> How much positive evidence for guilt is necessary before we decide that some man should be put away? The answer to this question is ZERO. We are human, after all (and the corollary is that no amount of evidence will tip the scale for someone we don't want to put away). How much positive evidence for guilt ought to be necessary for a society to remain moral/egalitarian/equitable is a different question entirely.

I think you’re taking “necessary” literally, whereas the author is posing a question about morality.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#14

Post by philipallstar »

pixl97 wrote: post #11
philipallstar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero evidence is required to lock someone up?

Correct. The only thing required to lock someone up is power.

Well, power is another euphemism you could deconstruct as well. But that doesn't mean that you can just lock people up, in most countries. I certainly can't.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#15

Post by tines »

philipallstar wrote: post #14
pixl97 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The only thing required to lock someone up is power.

Well, power is another euphemism you could deconstruct as well. But that doesn't mean that you can just lock people up, in most countries. I certainly can't.

Uh, power is a euphemism? For what, pray tell?

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#16

Post by throwaway314155 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #4

I would highly recommend the 2006 deaths note films. I found the manga and anime to have too many side stories. Fans of them love these near miss stories, but I found them like a bunch of dead ends. The double feature is well made and much more focused on the core story, imho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Note_(2006_film)

Couldn’t disagree more. Both the manga and the anime are masterpieces.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#17

Post by kadoban »

throwaway314155 wrote: post #16
wodenokoto wrote: post #4

I would highly recommend the 2006 deaths note films. I found the manga and anime to have too many side stories. Fans of them love these near miss stories, but I found them like a bunch of dead ends. The double feature is well made and much more focused on the core story, imho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Note_(2006_film)

Couldn’t disagree more. Both the manga and the anime are masterpieces.

Ehhh, they're masterpieces and then a second half happens. Still ends up quite good.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#18

Post by throwaway314155 »

kadoban wrote: post #17
throwaway314155 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t disagree more. Both the manga and the anime are masterpieces.

Ehhh, they're masterpieces and then a second half happens. Still ends up quite good.

Indeed the first half is supreme. I really enjoyed watching Light's downfall though.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#19

Post by andreareina »

hibikir wrote: post #6

The analysis forgets the very first problem after someone is killing criminals visibly: Light relies on TV to find them. You could tell it's Japan without doing any math about time zones or anythING, as TV itself brings in the bias. To pretend you are elsewhere, you have to be consuming foreign news to even begin to have a chance to hide yourself

At the end of the article:

> Selecting criminals could be based on internationally accessible periodicals that plausibly every human has access to, such as the New York Times, and deaths could be delayed by months or years to broaden the possibilities as to where the Kira learned of the victim (TV? books? the Internet?) and avoiding issues like killing a criminal only publicized on one obscure Japanese public television channel. And so on.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2011)

#20

Post by throwaway314155 »

andreareina wrote: post #19
hibikir wrote: post #6

The analysis forgets the very first problem after someone is killing criminals visibly: Light relies on TV to find them. You could tell it's Japan without doing any math about time zones or anythING, as TV itself brings in the bias. To pretend you are elsewhere, you have to be consuming foreign news to even begin to have a chance to hide yourself

At the end of the article: > Selecting criminals could be based on internationally accessible periodicals that plausibly every human has access to, such as the New York Times, and deaths could be delayed by months or years to broaden the possibilities as to where the Kira learned of the victim (TV? books? the Internet?) and avoiding issues like killing a criminal only publicized on one obscure Japanese public televis…

Less than a quarter of the way through the article:

> Worse, the deaths are non-random in other ways—they tend to occur at particular times! Just the scheduling of deaths cost Light 6 bits of anonymity

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