The Home Computer Hybrids • Hacker News Board

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#11

Post by flomo » Fri, Jan 30, 2026, 10:14 PM UTC

EvanAnderson wrote: post #4

buescher wrote: post #2

The fact that the Apple II met the new FCC requirements was a major competitive advantage for Apple, and there have been rumors over the years about how that happened. The higher emissions allowance was why you saw the big shift from monsters like the Atari 800 (heavy cast metal frame, aluminum or pot metal) and Commodore PET to lighter chassis like the Atari XL series and the Commodore VIC-20 and C64.

The old FCC Standards kneecapped Atari. I think Atari would have had a much showing against Apple had they not had to have the heavy and expensive cast box inside every 400/800 and the increased cost for "smart" peripherals versus "dumb" slots. Those Atari machines are arguably more technically advanced and capable than the Apple II. The cost of FCC compliance drove up the price and hurt their market share. I've alwa…

When I was a kid, I had a green screen Apple, and I wish I knew about 3rd party RF modulators. (It didn't work with an Atari-style modulator.) I never saw a setup like that, so I wonder how common they really were.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#12

Post by kwertyoowiyop » Fri, Jan 30, 2026, 10:20 PM UTC

flomo wrote: post #11

EvanAnderson wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old FCC Standards kneecapped Atari. I think Atari would have had a much showing against Apple had they not had to have the heavy and expensive cast box inside every 400/800 and the increased cost for "smart" peripherals versus "dumb" slots. Those Atari machines are arguably more technically advanced and capable than the Apple II. The cost of FCC compliance drove up the price and hurt their market share. I've alwa…

When I was a kid, I had a green screen Apple, and I wish I knew about 3rd party RF modulators. (It didn't work with an Atari-style modulator.) I never saw a setup like that, so I wonder how common they really were.

It was the typical way to connect a TV to an Apple. I used one before I bought a monitor.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#13

Post by MarkusWandel » Fri, Jan 30, 2026, 11:15 PM UTC

buescher wrote: post #2

The fact that the Apple II met the new FCC requirements was a major competitive advantage for Apple, and there have been rumors over the years about how that happened. The higher emissions allowance was why you saw the big shift from monsters like the Atari 800 (heavy cast metal frame, aluminum or pot metal) and Commodore PET to lighter chassis like the Atari XL series and the Commodore VIC-20 and C64.

Except that after the initial model, the PET's case was plastic, or rather, structural foam, with no shielding applied to it all.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#14

Post by buescher » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 12:51 AM UTC

MarkusWandel wrote: post #13

buescher wrote: post #2

The fact that the Apple II met the new FCC requirements was a major competitive advantage for Apple, and there have been rumors over the years about how that happened. The higher emissions allowance was why you saw the big shift from monsters like the Atari 800 (heavy cast metal frame, aluminum or pot metal) and Commodore PET to lighter chassis like the Atari XL series and the Commodore VIC-20 and C64.

Except that after the initial model, the PET's case was plastic, or rather, structural foam, with no shielding applied to it all.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#15

Post by TacticalCoder » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 4:17 AM UTC

> By June 1979, Atari had sold over one million VCS consoles.

Speaking of an even weirder hybrid before the hybrids... By 1979 Atari released a BASIC cartridge for the Atari VCS (later renamed Atari 2600): the VCS/2600 was a console. No keyboard. So the BASIC cartridge shipped with the most horrible keyboard ever invented.

So in a way the console themselves were the first hybrid.

Believe, I know: it's how I wrote my very first program ever. It was super simple: basically modifying programs drawing colored lines across the screen.

IIRC -- but I was a kid back then and now I'm nearly the mid 50s -- that BASIC cartdridge's keyboard required to be plugged in both joystick ports.

Oh. The. (128 bytes of RAM) Memories.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#16

Post by kmoser » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 4:29 AM UTC

MarkusWandel wrote: post #13

buescher wrote: post #2

The fact that the Apple II met the new FCC requirements was a major competitive advantage for Apple, and there have been rumors over the years about how that happened. The higher emissions allowance was why you saw the big shift from monsters like the Atari 800 (heavy cast metal frame, aluminum or pot metal) and Commodore PET to lighter chassis like the Atari XL series and the Commodore VIC-20 and C64.

Except that after the initial model, the PET's case was plastic, or rather, structural foam, with no shielding applied to it all.

After the initial 2001 model, Commodore used a mix of materials, with some models made of all metal and some of a metal/plastic hybrid (metal base, plastic top), according to this website: https://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/PETx/petfaq.html (look for "WHAT MODELS OF THE PET ARE THERE?")

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#17

Post by kmoser » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 4:30 AM UTC

> The 1983 FCC-compliant Apple IIe. Unused slots have metal covers for RF shielding.

Interesting--I always assumed the metal covers (particularly on the old IBMs) were to keep out dust.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#18

Post by zabzonk » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 4:36 AM UTC

MarkusWandel wrote: post #13

buescher wrote: post #2

The fact that the Apple II met the new FCC requirements was a major competitive advantage for Apple, and there have been rumors over the years about how that happened. The higher emissions allowance was why you saw the big shift from monsters like the Atari 800 (heavy cast metal frame, aluminum or pot metal) and Commodore PET to lighter chassis like the Atari XL series and the Commodore VIC-20 and C64.

Except that after the initial model, the PET's case was plastic, or rather, structural foam, with no shielding applied to it all.

Source? Every Commodore PET I've ever come across had a metal chassis. Commodore64s and VICs had plastic ones.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#19

Post by McGlockenshire » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 6:13 AM UTC

Sorry I'm going to have to softly call bullshit on the TI 99/4 section.

> Texas Instruments intended to have total control over the software for its computers, and to reap all of the profits from selling ROM cartridges. Grown arrogant from their long string of consumer products successes (including 1978’s Speak and Spell), TI evidently felt they could dictate the terms for a new category without consideration for the existing, highly-competitive market for personal computers.

They're talking about GROMs here. The 99/4 firmware contains a virtual machine that implements what they call Graphics Programming Language, or GPL. What a search nightmare today!

The idea was that most programmers would be using GPL almost exclusively, and GPL was highly opinionated. The original designers wanted TI to actually build a custom processor just for it, but this was back when it was just a specification and not a design. Cartridges ended up with a non-standard ROM design for technical reasons first.

But ultimately the guy in charge of designing the damn thing intended the GROM requirement to be solving that technical problem first and offering a simplification to devs second. No need to find someone to build your own ROMs, just send us the data and some money!

Source: A five hour interview with Doctor Granville Ott. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keWwxWHGKtw

The guy's a good geek.

What the business did, though, is utterly incomprehensible. The company sounds like a complete disaster. No, there was no arrogant strategy. There was no strategy.

I'm currently working on an interview with the other guy on that stage (no, not the youtuber ... he's later) and writing an essay on the 99000.

The slant the article gives the 99/4 is really awful and doesn't seem planted in current knowledge.

Re: The Home Computer Hybrids

#20

Post by flomo » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 6:46 AM UTC

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #12

flomo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid, I had a green screen Apple, and I wish I knew about 3rd party RF modulators. (It didn't work with an Atari-style modulator.) I never saw a setup like that, so I wonder how common they really were.

It was the typical way to connect a TV to an Apple. I used one before I bought a monitor.

Maybe 'typical' only in the very early days? I just never saw one plugged into a television rather than a computer monitor, nor did I ever hear about such a thing. I would have loved to play those games in color.