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US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#11

Post by dragonwriter »

graemep wrote: post #3

This has always been the case, and not just the US either. International law has no enforcement mechanism - it depends on willingness of countries to follow it or force others to. It does not have a proper system of courts to decide the law. Different bits of it can clash with each other. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-...

> International law has no enforcement mechanism

International law has a number of enforcement mechanisms.

> it depends on willingness of countries to follow it or force others to.

All law depends on the willingness of its subjects to follow it, and failing that of its other subjects to force them to. This is not unique to international law.

Some systems of law (e.g., typical modern national criminal law) may have a particular group of people (usually with a formal heirarchy) who are expected to do the executive part of enforcement, and a similar (possibly the same or overlapping, but often distinct) group of people employed to do the adjudicative part of enforccement. International law has the latter (in several forms), but lacks the former. But anyone who is familiar with more than a narrow range of the most idealistic systems of national law will be aware that that that executive body can be a single point of failure—the real problem with international law isn't that it lacks such a single dedicated executive body, but that the important issues under it frequently involve significant conflicts of interest for any of the groups with the capacity to take on the executive role in the particular case, which is problematic under any system of law whether it has a single dedicated body for the executive part of enforcement or whether it relies on ad hoc case-by-case posses for that purpose.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#13

Post by pendenthistory »

Elixir6419 wrote: post #5

US knows its power matters more than international law, UN chief. title needs to be fixed as above and becomes BAU.

Knowing and acting on it will have grave consequences though. The US's main allies will stop buying American military equipment for one, trade will go down and the largest economic block in the world will align itself closer to China (who does not directly threaten them with invasion). What a self own.

As a European who's been as continue to be against Chinese authoritarianism, I have to admit that China looks like the better partner going forward.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#14

Post by defrost »

SXX wrote: post #4

There is "international law", but no "international police". So the law only as good as long as everyone follow it - so not very good either. Then you have major power like Russia that constantly abuse it while trying to cover its ass with "internatiomal law" once they themself get hit. This is whem you get system is broken. I get it suck for people inside the US to see democracy dismantled, but honestly I dont mind…

> its a good irony to see Trump dealing with them their way.

Accepting multiple massive bribes from Crown Prince MBS Bonesaw in plane sight, and giving Putin free rein to set terms for war and peace in Ukraine?

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#15

Post by YetAnotherNick »

watwut wrote: post #8
poisonarena wrote: post #2

There is no such thing as "international law", and never has been. Land belongs to people who can control it, and always has.

Nazi says that, yes. That was the cornerstone of that ideology and good people hope they will be defeated again.

Communist say that too as do socialist as do almost all ideology. Why do anyone want to give their power in your land to any other politically motivated entity.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#16

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

It’s a little disturbing seeing the complete lack of historical understanding in the comments here. Yeah, international law isn’t perfect and certainly wasn’t perfectly followed.

But the U.S., and most other countries, did heavily constrain themselves by it, primarily for their own good.

Some of this is clearly evident from the fact that many of the actions the U.S. has taken, such as kidnapping Maduro, doesn’t really help the U.S. at all, or plans on taking, such as annexing Greenland, will end up being a massive net negative.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#17

Post by fredley »

graemep wrote: post #3

This has always been the case, and not just the US either. International law has no enforcement mechanism - it depends on willingness of countries to follow it or force others to. It does not have a proper system of courts to decide the law. Different bits of it can clash with each other. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-...

Yes, laws only matter if they are collectively believed in. International law just the same. This has always been the case, but largely speaking in the West, for the last century or so, the rule of law has been broadly believed in, including international law.

The story here is that the US seems to not currently believe international law is an effective tool for projecting its power. Whether correctly or otherwise, it has believed that up until now.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#18

Post by iso1631 »

You'd think American defeats in Vietnam and Afghanistan would have tempered them I guess the American view is that the problem was they didn't napalm the population enough.

I have no doubt that the international community will cave in an allow America to annex a land 1,200 miles away from it's nearest border, just like it allowed Germany to annex Czechoslovakia in 1938. Trump needs breathing room.

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#19

Post by iso1631 »

SXX wrote: post #4

There is "international law", but no "international police". So the law only as good as long as everyone follow it - so not very good either. Then you have major power like Russia that constantly abuse it while trying to cover its ass with "internatiomal law" once they themself get hit. This is whem you get system is broken. I get it suck for people inside the US to see democracy dismantled, but honestly I dont mind…

> There is "international law", but no "international police"

Yet America just bust into a sovereign nation to arrest its president

Re: US believes its power matters more than international law, UN chief

#20

Post by oldpersonintx »

watwut wrote: post #8
poisonarena wrote: post #2

There is no such thing as "international law", and never has been. Land belongs to people who can control it, and always has.

Nazi says that, yes. That was the cornerstone of that ideology and good people hope they will be defeated again.

[dead]
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