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Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

scientificamerican.com

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#11

>Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science Considering on the average 7/10 people either voted for Trump or didn't vote, (with Trump openly stating that he wants to neuter universities) Americans "think" they support science.

I read that as people support science, but not so much that they're willing to support academia along the way.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#12
post #5

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

In fairness that sounds like extending capabilities of something that already exists. For personal use that should be okay. For commercial use, that would run afoul of IP -unless we’re talking about open source, though even then you might have obligations depending on the license. If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. Now, sure it sucks that you can’t do those things you mentio…

> If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to.

Reinventing the universe every time you create something is expensive and impractical. We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#13
post #12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness that sounds like extending capabilities of something that already exists. For personal use that should be okay. For commercial use, that would run afoul of IP -unless we’re talking about open source, though even then you might have obligations depending on the license. If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. Now, sure it sucks that you can’t do those things you mentio…

> If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. Reinventing the universe every time you create something is expensive and impractical. We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

Indeed, this is how companies like Facebook got a head start because they created scrappers for MySpace that made the transition easier. If you try to do the same today, they will likely throw you in federal prison for "tampering" or commit lawfare so heinous it'll feel like a war crime.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#14
post #5

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

In fairness that sounds like extending capabilities of something that already exists. For personal use that should be okay. For commercial use, that would run afoul of IP -unless we’re talking about open source, though even then you might have obligations depending on the license. If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. Now, sure it sucks that you can’t do those things you mentio…

> If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to.

That's not remotely how any progress has ever been made in the history of the human race. Newton himself said he stood on the shoulders of giants. Or as Sagan said, to bake an apple pie from scratch, you have to first invent the Universe.

A clever patch to an existing thing is exactly how you get to the next big thing after enough patches.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#15

Everyone in the world "supports" science, exactly the same way everyone "supports" healthy lifestyles, democracy and other "good things". The problem is that everyone has a different idea of what these good things are. For some, science is vaccines, understanding global warming and the theory of evolution. Others will say that real science is denying global warming, creationism, anti-vaxers or homeopathy.

Are those two groups of people’s opinions on the subject equally valid?

No, of course, but the issue comes in the next step. How do they put their "support" of science into practice? For some, that means supporting increased budgets for grants, education, or basic research. For others, that means "restoring trust" by adding partisan steps. "Trusting the experts is not science", as RFK said.

I find these types of survey questions almost useless - of course people will say they support science, or democracy, or freedom, or increasing support for families. The devil is always in the details.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#16

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

Doesn't everyone else have things like this too?

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#17

The US is lagging by every reasonable measure. What has changed is primarily 2 things: 1) People in positions of authority are now openly anti-progress in an effort to pacify entrenched interests. 2) These same people are also openly anti-immigrant. In the past, a lot of science in the USA has been imported from other countries by way of immigration. Less science equals less/inferior technology which equals smaller e…

The US is destroying it's own advantage. For decades the US was pulling the best and brightest from all over the world into its Universities and companies. Why would anybody think stopping that would lead to a 'Golden Age'.

Ignorance, incompetence, indifference --- it's how empires end.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#18
post #14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness that sounds like extending capabilities of something that already exists. For personal use that should be okay. For commercial use, that would run afoul of IP -unless we’re talking about open source, though even then you might have obligations depending on the license. If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. Now, sure it sucks that you can’t do those things you mentio…

> If you want to start from square 1, using your own IP, you should be able to. That's not remotely how any progress has ever been made in the history of the human race. Newton himself said he stood on the shoulders of giants. Or as Sagan said, to bake an apple pie from scratch, you have to first invent the Universe. A clever patch to an existing thing is exactly how you get to the next big thing after enough patches…

I don't think people realize how important incremental improvements are. Before open-source software took off, everyone either licensed a proprietary library or invented an ad-hoc solution. If the proprietary library was discontinued, you often couldn't extend or improve it (and even if you could, you couldn't share your changes), so you started over, either from scratch or with another vendor redoing the same work.

This is also why we have so much e-waste: once a manufacturer ditches a product, its usefulness is permanently limited, both by law and practicality. Copyright expires eventually, but so far in the future that we'll all be dead by then.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#19

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

Doesn't everyone else have things like this too?

They do, on paper, but many countries hardly enforce them. For example, the EU has more caveats to its section-1201-style insanity; China simply doesn't care at all. These copyright treaties are useless in practice and harmful because they ossify a bad system.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#20

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

The US is the world leader in suing in general, and yet it produces a lot more research than most other legally friendly places... how's that?
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