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Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

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Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#11

Post by Polizeiposaune »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #3
quotemstr wrote: post #2

Caltrain is functional, I guess, but it's one linear system. It doesn't even have express tracks. (It has a few four-tracked overtaking areas, but nothing pervasive.) Inside, basic electric power outlets are hard to find. Grade separation? Ridiculous fantasy. The route map hasn't expanded since 1992. Yeah, they've electrified the system. Congrats, I guess? The system is still a glorified people mover. It goes in one…

> It goes in one direction, turns around, and goes in the other direction. To be fair, the peninsula is basically a long hallway. I’m not really sure where else it would go?

Long Island is even more of a long hallway than the peninsula. The LIRR manages to have multiple trunks and something like 10 different branch lines. One thing that made it possible is LI is much flatter terrain than the peninsula.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#13

Post by kay_o »

mc32 wrote: post #10
quotemstr wrote: post #2

Caltrain is functional, I guess, but it's one linear system. It doesn't even have express tracks. (It has a few four-tracked overtaking areas, but nothing pervasive.) Inside, basic electric power outlets are hard to find. Grade separation? Ridiculous fantasy. The route map hasn't expanded since 1992. Yeah, they've electrified the system. Congrats, I guess? The system is still a glorified people mover. It goes in one…

If the ABAG had power, I would have them replace Caltrain with BaRT to make a it a loop around the SF/SP Bay Area and tear out CalTrain. Caltrain remains because the tracks are used by UP --if it were not UP's right-of-way, BaRT could have that corridor. BaRT could still work if they did cut-and-cover to build a parallel line under the Camino Real. Granted that'd be a lot of money today --they should have bought in b…

Curious why lowercase a

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#14

Post by nxobject »

rconti wrote: post #5

It's notable that the annual ridership is up 47% in the FY ending June 2025 vs the FY ending June 2024, when electrification was only complete in September 2024-- in other words, it's not even a full year's worth of ridership increase. On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels. Anecdotally, the increased service is a game-changer. Speed matters, too, a lot, but the f…

> On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels.

My understand is that it's been true of commuter rail everywhere - e.g. a Twin Cities commuter railroad has shut down as well due to declining ridership.

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/M...

Here's a relatively rigorous report from the GAO synthesizing cross-US experiences:

https://www.gao.gov/blog/most-commuter-rail-systems-are-stil...

My understanding is that there's a decline in transit use in general, but I would hazard to guess that the emphasis on commuters has hit commuter rail the hardest.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#15

Post by adastra22 »

Polizeiposaune wrote: post #11
pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It goes in one direction, turns around, and goes in the other direction. To be fair, the peninsula is basically a long hallway. I’m not really sure where else it would go?

Long Island is even more of a long hallway than the peninsula. The LIRR manages to have multiple trunks and something like 10 different branch lines. One thing that made it possible is LI is much flatter terrain than the peninsula.

Your last sentence was going to be my reply. The peninsula is really linear along 101 / the historic el Camino. There really isn’t anything to connect to.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#16

Post by quotemstr »

Polizeiposaune wrote: post #11
pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It goes in one direction, turns around, and goes in the other direction. To be fair, the peninsula is basically a long hallway. I’m not really sure where else it would go?

Long Island is even more of a long hallway than the peninsula. The LIRR manages to have multiple trunks and something like 10 different branch lines. One thing that made it possible is LI is much flatter terrain than the peninsula.

LIRR still had to do plenty of tunneling to build the East Side Access station though. Still, it opened in 2023! NYC is also still building the second avenue subway --- slowly, haltingly, and at near-ruinous expense, but it's actually a real expansion to the network is actually happening. By US standards, that's a miracle.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#17

Post by gcanyon »

rconti wrote: post #5

It's notable that the annual ridership is up 47% in the FY ending June 2025 vs the FY ending June 2024, when electrification was only complete in September 2024-- in other words, it's not even a full year's worth of ridership increase. On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels. Anecdotally, the increased service is a game-changer. Speed matters, too, a lot, but the f…

Living in Jersey City, the Path train to Manhattan only leaves every 20 minutes on Sundays, and that's infrequent enough that we were discouraged from making that trip. We still went, but I'm sure not as often.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#18

Post by adastra22 »

jerlam wrote: post #9
pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It goes in one direction, turns around, and goes in the other direction. To be fair, the peninsula is basically a long hallway. I’m not really sure where else it would go?

I would expect a regional system to connect an entire regional area. Caltrain connects two parts of the Bay Area: San Francisco and the South Bay. BART connects the entire East Bay to San Francisco. In a functioning system, they would both just be legs and not two completely separate systems. The only place they connect appears to be in Millbrae and not near any large hubs.

They will soon connect in San Jose.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#19

Post by kentonv »

citizenpaul wrote: post #6
quotemstr wrote: post #2

Caltrain is functional, I guess, but it's one linear system. It doesn't even have express tracks. (It has a few four-tracked overtaking areas, but nothing pervasive.) Inside, basic electric power outlets are hard to find. Grade separation? Ridiculous fantasy. The route map hasn't expanded since 1992. Yeah, they've electrified the system. Congrats, I guess? The system is still a glorified people mover. It goes in one…

You should check Austin TX where they tried to do the same thing, but only built one rail.... So yea you have to wait like over an hour just for arrival if the train is at the other end. For what should be a 15 min ride because literally only one train can go back and forth. The train drivers sometime stop the train to get food at in-n-out burger too, seriously. Its one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, a testame…

That's a bit of an exaggeration. A quick look at the schedule shows they do have multiple trains running in each direction during peak hours:

https://www.capmetro.org/plan/schedmap?route=550

But much of the length is, in fact, single-track, making scheduling hard and meaning if a train is late or breaks down it disrupts the whole system.

And it's honestly pretty silly to see a train with the form factor of light rail but diesel-powered.

Voters did approve a proper light rail system in 2020 but it's gonna take a while to build and has already been scaled back twice, sigh...

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#20

Post by cyberax »

No, we shouldn't. Caltrain shows that even the best transit systems are not comfortable for daily commutes.

The upper limit for comfortable commutes is 30 minutes one way. Even assuming that you synchronize your schedule with Caltrain departures, the map of locations within this timeframe would look like a string of rather small beads along the Caltrain route.

As a simpler example, try playing with routes from the Salesforce Tower. You start blowing past that 30-minute mark by the time the train is still passing Brisbane.

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