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Why I left iNaturalist

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Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#11

Post by contingencies »

turtle_ wrote: post #10
contingencies wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do. ~Sept 2025. Subject: iNaturalist must commit to being open Platform(s), such as mobile, website, API, other: All URLs (aka web addresses) of any pages, if relevant: https://github.com/inaturalist/inatVisionAPI Description of need: iNaturalist makes a subset of its machine learning models publicly available while keeping full species classification models private due to “intellectual property considerations…

Can you explain what you mean by censored? For example if this was on the forum was the post deleted? If this was a bug filed, was the bug closed or deleted?

The original post was "not approved", although I have >10,000 observations and am a long term community member and this is a legit thing to complain about. The alleged opportunity for interaction occurred in some kind of private forum-hosted message thread, though no participation eventuated.

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#12

Post by geokon »

teruakohatu wrote: post #3

iNaturalist ranks right up there with Wikipedia in importance. It is more than one organisation, but rather a central org + a network of regional organisations. The regional organisation provides a lot of biological technical expertise. Citizen scientists alone would not be able to correctly handle the complex taxonomic issues you have in biology… or even basic identification in many cases. Where the organisation(s)…

It's interesting to contrast with Wikipedia. I'm not deeply involved with either, so I'm talking out of my ass and would be curious to hear other people's thoughts here. But Wikipedia has gone to great lengths to make the data side, Wikidata, and the app/website, decoupled. I'm guessing iNaturalist hasn't?

The OpenStreetMaps model is also interesting. Where they basically only provide the data and expect others to make Apps/Websites

That said, it's also interesting that there hasn't been any big hit with people building new apps on top of Wikidata (I guess the website and Android app are technically different views on the same thing)

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#13

Post by [deleted] »

turtle_ wrote: post #10
contingencies wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do. ~Sept 2025. Subject: iNaturalist must commit to being open Platform(s), such as mobile, website, API, other: All URLs (aka web addresses) of any pages, if relevant: https://github.com/inaturalist/inatVisionAPI Description of need: iNaturalist makes a subset of its machine learning models publicly available while keeping full species classification models private due to “intellectual property considerations…

Can you explain what you mean by censored? For example if this was on the forum was the post deleted? If this was a bug filed, was the bug closed or deleted?

[deleted]

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#15

Post by shermantanktop »

gyomu wrote: post #2

> They insisted the app needed to be simpler, to cater first to incidental users who wanted a quick answer, to be a friction-less path to a feeling of contribution. I don’t believe that’s possible while also serving existing users who value (don’t laugh) the power and nuance of iNat, including, among many other things, the way it doesn’t give you a quick answer, forcing you to consider options when making an identifi…

I have a hand in some complex e-commerce flows and it’s really difficult. Similar to selecting a cell phone plan, a cable package, or a car trim level with options, but in a different space.

We have all sorts of information that consumers could use to understand what combination of products will give them only the features they want and maximize the discounts. The complexity comes mostly from third-party terms.

But putting even 20% of that information in one screen is just a horrible UX. And guiding them creates rigid journeys that they can’t break out from. This, despite some great UX design talent. It’s just a really hard problem.

Nobody wants users to have to learn all this crap, but protecting them from it means the optimal thing happens only if people choose exactly the right path.

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#16

Post by [deleted] »

japhyr wrote: post #4
gyomu wrote: post #2

> They insisted the app needed to be simpler, to cater first to incidental users who wanted a quick answer, to be a friction-less path to a feeling of contribution. I don’t believe that’s possible while also serving existing users who value (don’t laugh) the power and nuance of iNat, including, among many other things, the way it doesn’t give you a quick answer, forcing you to consider options when making an identifi…

Like so many others, I've gotten into birding in the last few years. I've known so many people who choose eBird over iNaturalist because it's "easier to use". But that's exactly why I don't really enjoy eBird. So many people are just running Merlin, and dumping whatever it picks up to eBird. There are way fewer observations on iNaturalist, but I know how much to trust every one of them.

[deleted]

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#17

Post by culi »

> Toward the end of our time at CAS we experimented with sociocracy as a way to organize without hierarchy and coercion, but despite my enthusiasm for the form, we didn’t start with universal buy-in or understanding from the whole team, we didn’t fully adopt its structures, and, like many democracies before us, we ultimately voted to abolish our own democracy when we formed the “leadership circle” and created a hierarchy.

I'm convinced that "what works" when it comes to self-organization is almost always a function of how involved/educated the participants are about the principles. Every time someone on HN complains about agile the typical response is that "they weren't doing agile correctly". And honestly I believe it. I just extend this to most forms of self-organization.

To be clear, I definitely do believe that certain structures are more effective than others for a given goal but I also believe that often the biggest factor in success is the buy-in and investment the members have. I even extend this (admittedly, somewhat reductive) analysis to debates between OOP vs functional codebase structures. If everyone is well versed in "proper" OOP or "proper" functional software design both strategies can be effective. If everyone is sociocracy fanatic then that can certainly work effectively. Because it's not as much about the superstructure as it is about proficiency.

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#18

Post by WoodenChair »

Business books sometimes get a bad rap on here, but I never read an essay where I more thought "wow this guy really needs to read some basic business books." Even though it was a non-profit, there is so much wisdom in them about management and leadership that was clearly lacking throughout his experience. It's too late now. But maybe if he understood some of the reasons back when they were starting the app why organizations are structured the way they typically are, he wouldn't have experimented with so many poor (and ultimately failed) governance structures.

It seems like he was looking at his organization through a social lens (democracy, everyone should have a say) from a governance perspective but having it focused through a product lens (the app). That just doesn't mesh well. Social organizations typically have social missions, not products. When the two mix it doesn't always go well (see Mozilla).

He also explicitly gave up his leadership position and then later wanted a say in management's direction. Ultimately, he sounds like a caring, nice guy, who was more interested in "having everyone heard" than learning some management skills. What happened later after he dropped out of the leadership circle is just a product of that and I imagine significant bad blood between him and those who remained.

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#19

Post by consp »

culi wrote: post #17

> Toward the end of our time at CAS we experimented with sociocracy as a way to organize without hierarchy and coercion, but despite my enthusiasm for the form, we didn’t start with universal buy-in or understanding from the whole team, we didn’t fully adopt its structures, and, like many democracies before us, we ultimately voted to abolish our own democracy when we formed the “leadership circle” and created a hiera…

> Every time someone on HN complains about agile the typical response is that "they weren't doing agile correctly".

No true Scotsman would ever ...

Re: Why I left iNaturalist

#20

Post by chneu »

tptacek wrote: post #6
teruakohatu wrote: post #3

iNaturalist ranks right up there with Wikipedia in importance. It is more than one organisation, but rather a central org + a network of regional organisations. The regional organisation provides a lot of biological technical expertise. Citizen scientists alone would not be able to correctly handle the complex taxonomic issues you have in biology… or even basic identification in many cases. Where the organisation(s)…

Having never used iNaturalist, but as someone who believes that Wikipedia might be one of the most important knowledge resources created in the last 100 years, I'd love to hear more about why you think this.

I use it a lot. My ex is a biologist and they use it a ton.

It's a massive dataset. There's nothing quite like it. The way people collaborate and verify information on iNat is invaluable.

The best thing about iNat is the passionate people on there. If you don't know an ID, just post it and within a day someone will correct it. It's crazy.

Download Seek and go try it out. Make sure to sign up for iNat and connect your seek to iNat so you can contribute.

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