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Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

danielmiessler.com

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Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#11

Post by xboxnolifes »

davnicwil wrote: post #5

It's an interesting one. We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning, which is objectively good, I think we can all agree. Like, it's a better world having that than not having it. But at the same time there's a tension between that and the sort of bottom-up practice-driven learning that's pretty inarguably required for…

How I see it, LLMs aren't really much different than existing information sources. I can watch video tutorials and lectures all day, but if I don't sit down and practice applying what I see, very little of it will stick long term.

The biggest difference I see is, pre-LLM search, I spent a lot more time looking for a good source for what I was looking for, and I probably picked up some information along the way.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#12

Post by davnicwil »

danielrm26 wrote: post #6
davnicwil wrote: post #5

It's an interesting one. We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning, which is objectively good, I think we can all agree. Like, it's a better world having that than not having it. But at the same time there's a tension between that and the sort of bottom-up practice-driven learning that's pretty inarguably required for…

OP here, yeah, I think that's a really good point. I feel like the way I'm building this in is a violent maintenance of two extremes. On one hand, fully merged with AI and acting like we are one being, having it do tons of work for me. And then on the other hand is like this analog gym where I'm stripped of all my augmentations and tools and connectivity, and I am being quizzed on how good I could do just by myself.…

there could also be an almost chaos-monkey-like approach of cutting off the assistance at indeterminate intervals, so you've got to maintain a baseline of skill / muscle memory to be able to deal with this.

I'm not sure if people would subject themselves to this, but perhaps the market will just serve it to us as it currently does with internet and services sometimes going down :-)

I know for me when this happens, and also when I sometimes do a bit of offline coding in various situations, it feels good to exercise that skill of just writing code from scratch (erm, well, with intellisense) and kind of re-assert that I can do it now we're in tab-autocomplete land most of the time.

But I guess opting into such a scheme would be one-to-one with the type of self determined discipline required to learn anything in the first place anyway, so I could see it happening for those with at least equal motivation to learn X as exist today.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#13

Post by dnautics »

- using ai effectively is itself a skill that needs training, especially if you're already good at the critical thinking stuff.

- using AI actually most of everything i do anyways, is critical thinking. I'm constantly reviewing the AI's code and finding little places where the AI tried to get away with a shortcut, or started to overarchitect a solution, or both.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#14

Post by ares623 »

llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Maybe cleaning house and doing laundry needs to start being marketed as an art form /s

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#15

Post by sunrunner »

danielrm26 wrote: post #9
llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Ah man...that's good. But maybe both of those are in the category of undesirable things. And the things we end up with are like art and baking and walking and talking and drinking coffee and such. Professional Chess is a nice pattern here. A calculator can beat Magnus Carlsen at this point, but Chess is more popular than ever. So it should be ok if AI/Robots are better than us at all the stuff we still decide to do.

Except Professional Chess, taken to mean players earning a living solely from paid tournament play, is in the low hundreds? Thousands? Meanwhile there are over 20 million 'professional' software developers. There are many things about that single number demographic that I would argue against, but despite that I'm not sure there's ever been a market for any kind of 'professional chess player', yet there is for 'professional software developer' (for some definitions of 'professional' and 'software').

[1] https://evansdata.com/reports/viewRelease.php?reportID=9

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#16

Post by rzzzt »

llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Ryan Anderson: Are We Having Fun Yet? https://www.instagram.com/itsryandanderson/reel/DRR241Mjr_F/

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#17

Post by llmslave2 »

danielrm26 wrote: post #9
llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Ah man...that's good. But maybe both of those are in the category of undesirable things. And the things we end up with are like art and baking and walking and talking and drinking coffee and such. Professional Chess is a nice pattern here. A calculator can beat Magnus Carlsen at this point, but Chess is more popular than ever. So it should be ok if AI/Robots are better than us at all the stuff we still decide to do.

Yeah I don't see clankers ever taking over art, music, sports etc. People care in large part about those things because of the human aspect.

I'd love for them to take my job as a programmer though, as that would certainty free up time for me to travel and drink coffee and Guinness.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#18

Post by mathgeek »

davnicwil wrote: post #5

It's an interesting one. We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning, which is objectively good, I think we can all agree. Like, it's a better world having that than not having it. But at the same time there's a tension between that and the sort of bottom-up practice-driven learning that's pretty inarguably required for…

> We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training.

I'm not sure we (meaning society as a whole) are going to have enough say to really draw those lines. Individuals will have more of a choice going forward, just like they did when education was democratized via many other technologies. The most that society will probably have a say in is what folks are allowed to pay for as far as credentials go.

What I worry about most is that AI seems like it's going to make the already large have/not divide grow even more.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#19

Post by fragmede »

llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Very cute. Hardware has very different challenges than software. If you want to get into robotics, it's a growing field with a lot of jobs and money!

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#20

Post by fragmede »

arm32 wrote: post #4

You're really rizzing up the whole "AI can do almost everything better than humans" point. Is there a chance that your investments are causing you to sensationalize things a bit? Because I can promise you, AI can only do better the things that I have absolutely no skill in.

If you need to believe that everyone's only in it for their investment portfolio, for you to sleep well at night, I mean, you do you, but recognize that that's a giant balloon of copium you're huffing.
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