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My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

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Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#11

Post by rgoulter »

MorehouseJ09 wrote: post #7

disclaimer: I'm the ceo of this company. What started as a joke a few years ago has actually turned into really good signal. I've found that the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and are extremely productive. Causation or correlation?

> the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this (1) spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and (2) are extremely productive

I think (1) is true. Whereas, (2) may be less so.

Or at least, "smart but unproductive" is also a class. :) (And I'm sure there are those who have had bad experiences working with such people).

I suppose using a keyboard like this is an expensive signal. As in.. it's fairly easy to buy a typical mechanical keyboard, but more difficult to get one of these small split keyboards. -- But I think this is just "interested in technical excellence", which is somewhat different than "highly productive".

;) As for these keyboards? The most pragmatic & superior tooling part isn't the "36-key keyboard" so much as "each thumb has 2-3 keys" each. That's what allows these keyboards to expressively bring the full functionality of the keyboard to within reach of the hands on home row.

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#12

Post by rjh29 »

MorehouseJ09 wrote: post #7

disclaimer: I'm the ceo of this company. What started as a joke a few years ago has actually turned into really good signal. I've found that the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and are extremely productive. Causation or correlation?

Some people like to over-optimise everything. Window manager, vim config, unix tool choice, split keyboard, DVORAK layout, mechanical keyboards, coffee brewing, Obsidian note-taking/Zettelkasten, mice (the rabbit hole for mice goes as deep as keyboards)

This is often more about enjoying the process of optimising than wanting to be productive overall. Some may spend a lot of time reading Hacker News to "keep up with new tools" and clipping their productivity bonsai tree at the deteriment of actually getting work done. They may be the type to spend weeks optimising a command that is run once a year. They may obsess over pointless details that don't matter.

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#13

Post by MorehouseJ09 »

rgoulter wrote: post #11
MorehouseJ09 wrote: post #7

disclaimer: I'm the ceo of this company. What started as a joke a few years ago has actually turned into really good signal. I've found that the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and are extremely productive. Causation or correlation?

> the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this (1) spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and (2) are extremely productive I think (1) is true. Whereas, (2) may be less so. Or at least, "smart but unproductive" is also a class. :) (And I'm sure there are those who have had bad experiences working with such people). I suppose using a keyboard like this is an expensive signal. As in.. it's fai…

You hit the nail on the head with the 2/3 thumb key bit. That is what was such a game changer for me with the kinesis. all the sudden you have real estate to take a layering approach that you just can't with normal keyboards.

Smart but unproductive is a class. We've all had experiences with those types of engineers. I think startups generally weed them out though. It's hard to survive at a startup without being productive. I probably should have put that as a disclaimer up front.

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#15

Post by Philpax »

Valodim wrote: post #5

For anyone looking into this who doesn't want to design their own layout from scratch, a well maintained layout for small keyboards is Miryoku. Worked very well for me (in qwerty base + vim directional keys mode) on a keyboardio atreus

For reference: https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#16

Post by lawn »

rgoulter wrote: post #11
MorehouseJ09 wrote: post #7

disclaimer: I'm the ceo of this company. What started as a joke a few years ago has actually turned into really good signal. I've found that the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and are extremely productive. Causation or correlation?

> the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this (1) spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and (2) are extremely productive I think (1) is true. Whereas, (2) may be less so. Or at least, "smart but unproductive" is also a class. :) (And I'm sure there are those who have had bad experiences working with such people). I suppose using a keyboard like this is an expensive signal. As in.. it's fai…

I think 3 thumb keys are too much as the thumb is slow and awkward to move. You can easily get by with 2 and you can get by with just one for normal usage.

See my own keyboard layouts for inspiration:

https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2024/11/26/the_current_cybe...

https://www.jonashietala.se/series/t-34/

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#17

Post by eviks »

the principles aren't sound

> To promote balanced usage, ... equal distribution eliminates the strain of overextending the right fingers

What overextension? You don't even type them frequently enough for your index/middle finger on the home row to notice anything, and "cognitive overhead" is lower if they're paired together.

And neither is this strategy

> we reach up for numbers,..This strategic approach ensures that my layout and daily typing tasks never overwhelm my cognitive load.

The default numbers are so inconveniently placed that you don't really get much proficiency in using them, so you'll not lose much if you switch from some great numpad layout back to horizontal line just like using regular numpad has no effect on your ability to use the horizontal row And numpad can't overwhelm anything since is extremely common

This is just bad strategy, using superficial logic to hurt ergonomics.

The familiarity with more rarely used symbols might add overhead if broken, but maybe if symbols are mapped to the same numbers it won't be much? (this is at least plausible unlike with the numbers themselves)

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#18

Post by egypturnash »

rgoulter wrote: post #11
MorehouseJ09 wrote: post #7

disclaimer: I'm the ceo of this company. What started as a joke a few years ago has actually turned into really good signal. I've found that the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and are extremely productive. Causation or correlation?

> the engineers who care enough to invest in keyboards like this (1) spend a lot of time investing in their tooling and (2) are extremely productive I think (1) is true. Whereas, (2) may be less so. Or at least, "smart but unproductive" is also a class. :) (And I'm sure there are those who have had bad experiences working with such people). I suppose using a keyboard like this is an expensive signal. As in.. it's fai…

> using a keyboard like this is an expensive signal

You can get premade keyboards in this layout for about $150. The Kinesis 360 mentioned earlier in the article is $400-500.

Decide for yourself how pricey "learning these things exist" and "making a custom DIY one is in terms of both resources and time.

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#19

Post by evilduck »

alphavibe wrote: post #9
Valodim wrote: post #5

For anyone looking into this who doesn't want to design their own layout from scratch, a well maintained layout for small keyboards is Miryoku. Worked very well for me (in qwerty base + vim directional keys mode) on a keyboardio atreus

Miryoku is a solid layout. Designing your own layout is definitely time consuming, and not something most should try diving into if they are new to small form factor keyboards.

Can't say I agree with the sentiment. Miryoku's layout looks pretty arbitrary, as is any other I would say just find or build a keyboard with support for Via or Vial so that you can change things on the fly when it feels wrong. If you're going down the small form factor keyboard path you're already committed to rewiring muscle memory, you might as well design your layout to meet your specific needs too. It's highly unlikely you will encounter someone else's Miryoku layout in the wild and need to type on it.

Re: My coworker's 36 key Corne open-source keyboard setup

#20

Post by Analemma_ »

eviks wrote: post #17

the principles aren't sound > To promote balanced usage, ... equal distribution eliminates the strain of overextending the right fingers What overextension? You don't even type them frequently enough for your index/middle finger on the home row to notice anything, and "cognitive overhead" is lower if they're paired together. And neither is this strategy > we reach up for numbers,..This strategic approach ensures that…

I love almost everything about the current revolution in keyboards (the mech switches, ergonomic layouts, and open-source designs), but I do think this arms race towards fewer and fewer keys is just getting ridiculous. Yes, you can use chords and layers, but at some point I think the cognitive overhead is outpacing whatever size and ergonomic advantages there could be, especially if you're a programmer and frequently need to type symbols from the weirder parts of the keyboard. Maybe people doing a lot of pure writing find them more useful, idk.
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