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Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

kalzumeus.com

11–20 of 48 posts

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#11
post #2

Happy to answer questions, to the extent possible. This dovetails quite a bit with the Ramit Sethi interviews earlier, but is largely about the mechanics of businesses as they get away from the solo consultant stage. There is some very important math in there for folks looking to expand by hiring. (Copious hat tips due to Thomas for much of the advice here. Except the bad stuff, that's mine.)

Being an ordinary iOS and Android freelancer paid by the hour or the day (based in Europe), can you give advice on how to get known as the guy who delivers value? How to become visible?

Also, does this kind of value-driven work also work remotely, or do you always travel to customers?

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#12

This was my favourite Podcast so far. A few things I really took away from it ( which I'll be implementing in my own freelancing /consulting business ) in no particular order 1. Charge more..... 2. Sell yourself as someone who solves business problems, not as someone who implements technical solutions 3. http://thunderboltlabs.com/ - An excellent example of how to sell yourself as a developer, without selling yoursel…

> Learn the language of yours customers. This is something I've really got to work on, I have now idea how business people speak.

Not just their language, but their lifestyle and culture.

A big portion of my clients are Jewish; this is because an early client was Jewish and I learned the little things like... sending emails late on Friday afternoons will rarely get a response till Monday. Or, Mondays are bad days to be in touch because a lot of Jewish holdays fall on them. Etc. etc.

I picked up a ton of clients because word got around that "hey, there's this guy who is easy to work with"

> Their hourly rate does makes my brain melt.

Is that the hourly rate for both of them? (they say they work in "pair programming style"). Given the mass of skills and experience they bring that seems and extremely good rate.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#13
post #12

This was my favourite Podcast so far. A few things I really took away from it ( which I'll be implementing in my own freelancing /consulting business ) in no particular order 1. Charge more..... 2. Sell yourself as someone who solves business problems, not as someone who implements technical solutions 3. http://thunderboltlabs.com/ - An excellent example of how to sell yourself as a developer, without selling yoursel…

> Learn the language of yours customers. This is something I've really got to work on, I have now idea how business people speak. Not just their language, but their lifestyle and culture. A big portion of my clients are Jewish; this is because an early client was Jewish and I learned the little things like... sending emails late on Friday afternoons will rarely get a response till Monday. Or, Mondays are bad days to…

Good point! Thanks Tom.

I assumed it was for one person but now you've mentioned it, that is probably for them both. In which case I guess it's less extreme on my brain.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#14
post #6

Talk economics to me, baby. As an economics PhD drop-out who left [after year #2] to start my own consulting company based on my PhD research, I can relate with so much of what I've heard so far (I'm only at 22mins at this point). Also, as a person who went from the economics/business (albeit, academic) life -> developer life, I agree with your observations about how programmers suck at economics (err... business). I…

The thing is, at least in my experience, there is absolutely no need to have _any_ academic background in order to be a good businessman. What you do need to have is smarts (see the possibility), tenacity (grab the possibilty) and relentlessness (convert the possibilty to value). The actual background that you have will only affect the range of possibilities available to you.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#15
Just as a minor PSA: I get that certain consultant types around these parts are always saying "raise your rates", and I get that a lot of people who work freelance do undercharge and often significantly, but the advice has very limited value unless it has some sort of quantifiable element attached to it. Otherwise, with due respect to those consultant types, it sounds a lot like "We're obviously smarter than you, because we charge enough and we're sure you don't" without any real data to back up such a claim.

Obviously rates vary dramatically according to many factors other than the desire of the freelancer/consultant/whatever who wants to charge them: location, industry, level of experience/credibility/relevant specialist skills, and so on. But without even a general indication of how much the poster child consultants of HN have succeeded in putting their own rates up before dispensing this advice endlessly to everyone else, it's hard to take seriously the idea that an average freelancer who isn't Internet famous is going to jump from their normal rate to something on a different kind of level, at least not without fundamentally changing the way they're working in a lot more ways than just the cost per unit time on invoices.

Let me ask a very simple question, which hopefully those consultants might be able to answer without giving away anything sensitive about the specific rates they are personally charging right now: if the going rate for freelance software development work in your area is typically in the range $x-$y, and you have moved via successive rate increases and repositioning what you offer to $z, approximately what are the ratios between x, y and z? For extra marks, since in the podcast a comparison was drawn with the way lawyers charge, how would z compare to a typical range for lawyers working in the same area and with the same kinds of clients?

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#16
post #6

Talk economics to me, baby. As an economics PhD drop-out who left [after year #2] to start my own consulting company based on my PhD research, I can relate with so much of what I've heard so far (I'm only at 22mins at this point). Also, as a person who went from the economics/business (albeit, academic) life -> developer life, I agree with your observations about how programmers suck at economics (err... business). I…

If you find a tutorial which solves this very problem you are facing, then you are surely good to go. I doubt however that you will find a tutorial on "how to increase traffic to a specific website by 10%". But that's what people actually pay for. They don't pay big bucks for you to implement that simple app or to fix that NullPointerException in their Java web app. I've been there. Yes, they might pay you $100/h for that, but not $10000 for the whole task.

You do need sharp wits and problem solving ability to deliver this kind of value, you need your methods in place (e.g. testing and validating everything) and you need to know where to look for unknowns. A good pitch is not the whole story as much as problem solving abilities are not the whole story.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#17

Just as a minor PSA: I get that certain consultant types around these parts are always saying "raise your rates", and I get that a lot of people who work freelance do undercharge and often significantly, but the advice has very limited value unless it has some sort of quantifiable element attached to it. Otherwise, with due respect to those consultant types, it sounds a lot like "We're obviously smarter than you, bec…

They do mention in the podcast (rather at the end) that internet famous is not customer famous. Patrick is well-known only to HNers and then some, but not to all CEOs in the world. Much seems to come from word of mouth.

Do you think Patrick or Brennan are übermenschen? Can they program 30x as good as you? They focus on bringing value to clients, discarding pride in technical perfection (well maybe they do, but your customers don't want to hear it anyway). It's taking development focus from "how you do" it to "what you do". Once you do that, your methods change over time - at least that's what I got out of this podcast. Of course you can't demand 100k for an app from a bootstrapped startup - but you can demand 100k for an app which makes a bank some more millions per year.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#18
post #17

Just as a minor PSA: I get that certain consultant types around these parts are always saying "raise your rates", and I get that a lot of people who work freelance do undercharge and often significantly, but the advice has very limited value unless it has some sort of quantifiable element attached to it. Otherwise, with due respect to those consultant types, it sounds a lot like "We're obviously smarter than you, bec…

They do mention in the podcast (rather at the end) that internet famous is not customer famous. Patrick is well-known only to HNers and then some, but not to all CEOs in the world. Much seems to come from word of mouth. Do you think Patrick or Brennan are übermenschen? Can they program 30x as good as you? They focus on bringing value to clients, discarding pride in technical perfection (well maybe they do, but your c…

To be clear, I'm not asking because I'm concerned about my rates. I don't work full-time on contract projects as I have other business interests as well, but even when I do, I seem to be somewhere around what Patrick considered the sweet spot in terms of size of client, who I'm dealing with, etc.

I just wish that if people who have been consulting for a relatively short time themselves want to share their advice with others who might be thinking of going down that path, they would give some sort of meaningful context to guide those other people about what to expect in practice. Otherwise, we're going to have a whole load of people who were actually on perfectly respectable if not exceptional rates, who were happy doing the work they were doing, whose clients were happy with the work they were doing, and who can't conveniently tie their personal contribution to an X% increase in the total profits of their clients, yet who then think they should be charging 10x as much and start going after new clients with unrealistic expectations. In most places, the software development industry is still quite a small world, and I'm genuinely concerned that such an approach is going to damage young developers' careers.

To be frank, I'm deeply skeptical about the current round of Tim Ferriss-style "Make More Money Than God In Five Minutes" discussions on HN. There are some interesting perspectives, and I'm certainly not criticising Patrick or any of the other guys for volunteering their points of view. But I do think quite a lot of that advice is going to be hard for many people to apply in practice, because the context won't be the same, and I do think it's borderline irresponsible to push the advice in as general and unqualified a form as sometimes happens, even if it happens with the best of intentions.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#19
Bits that were not obvious in retrospect and not previously covered in Patrick's writings or just obviously really important.

1. Patrick's consulting rate has more than septupled since he began consulting (or possibly just this year, can't remember.)

2. The longest he has ever waited to get paid by a client he would be happy to work with again is nine months.

3. On a related note: The bigger your client is the more bureaucratic BSthey will have so they get the special “I expect dealing with you on a business level to be hell” surcharge.

4. Becoming a consultancy is a different deal from being a consultant, even an extremely high end one. Brennan made less as yhe principal of a consultancy than as a consultant for the first year and a half. If you take the commendable attitude that making payroll is sacred you should have $30K set aside for “Despite cashflow issues, we made payroll” purposes.

5. On a related note: When the business has a bumper year employees get a 3-5% payrise. When things are looking like shit they still get paid what was previously negotiated, on time. Most people are, quite sensibly, risk averse. If they want the upside they can take the downside too.

There is a great deal more that's very valuablr in the transcript, like the discussion of the change in attitude that comes with charging more nut those struck me especially. Oh, and there's a link to a tptacek ccomment that is step by step guide to making LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY.

Re: Kalzumeus Podcast 3: Growing Consulting Practices, with Brennan Dunn

#20

Bits that were not obvious in retrospect and not previously covered in Patrick's writings or just obviously really important. 1. Patrick's consulting rate has more than septupled since he began consulting (or possibly just this year, can't remember.) 2. The longest he has ever waited to get paid by a client he would be happy to work with again is nine months. 3. On a related note: The bigger your client is the more b…

3. Not a surcharge an anti-discount

4. That's 30k per employee.

I'd have edited the original post but commenting on HN from a Lenovo phablet is hell.

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