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Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

gwern.net

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#11
post #4

Anecdotally I stumbled upon this phenomenon when trying to learn how to play the piano. I noticed that at the end of a session I make so many mistakes and feel like I didn't learn that much, but coming back to it after a day or two I really felt the difference.

Learning to play an instrument feels like magic.

You fail the whole day.

Don't have the feeling anything sticks.

Then, the next day it works right from the start.

No new insights, nothing, it just works.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#12

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

FSRS has dials to tweak to show you cards either more or less often, so if it's feeling "too hard" you can tweak that dial to show you cards when "easier" (at the risk of seeing more cards per day since you're seeing them more often).

Failing to do that, one might consider that instead of focusing on how hard each card feels, but rather the size of the corpus that they have "under their belt". This is the case if you're constantly adding new cards - if you are and your cards/day is stable, then you have an ever increasing mound of memorized knowledge.

If you aren't adding new cards, then the cards/day will inevitably go down, barring some actual cognitive issue.

It's a matter of what you focus on as your measure of success.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#13

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

If your only exposure to words is the spaced repititon why are you wasting your time learning? Use the language and soon you won't need the repitition at all. The app is good to start because you need a couple thousand words before you can do anything, but in a few months you should be switching from learning words to reading and listening (and soon after writting and talking). if you do it that way most words will occure far more often than the algorithm suggests and become easy

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#15

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem.

IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speaking. If spaced recognition vocab is just one feature of a holistic experience, users will judge their progression holistically.

I'm really waiting for that one app that finally connects ChatGPT Advanced Voice Mode or Gemini Live to a context-aware and well trained language tutor. I can already have impromptu practice sessions with both in Mandarin and English but they quickly lose the plot regarding their role as a tutor. I'd love to have them available as part of a learning journey. I can study vocab and flash cards all day but the second that voice starts speaking sentences and I need to understand in real time, I freeze up. The real progress is conversing!

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#16
post #6

>I like Mnemosyne (homepage) myself - Free, packaged for Ubuntu Linux It seems to use a 2 decade old modification of a now 4 decades old algorithm which will be worse and waste more of the user's time than using Anki with FSRS or SuperMemo with SM-18.

Do you have recommended apps using those algorithms?

Anki with FSRS.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#17

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

‘Desirable difficulty’ is the research term. To solve your problem, first understand your users need a mindset change. We need to connect their action to a “satisfying feeling” as you said.

You want your users to be like weight lifters. No lifter comes out the gym saying, “Man that was the best workout, felt so easy,” to the contrary, lifters use progressive overload to induce difficulty because that difficulty connects to the results they want.

For your users, you need some way to measure the outcome, so that you can show them, “hey look, that mild discomfort lead to more progress on what you care about,” and then you need to consistently message that some difficulty is good.

Mindset change takes consistency and time. Won’t happen over night. You’ll know you succeeded when students become aware of “hey, I’m not learning as well if it doesn’t feel difficult”, and then react by increasing the challenge.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#18
post #15

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem. IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speak…

How is spaced recognition different from spaced repetition? Recall is different from merely recognition, right?

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#19
post #14

This is memorization. There is debate on if that is learning. At the very least you need to apply this learning to real life or you will never know if you learned. So get to that point quick.

Memorization is learning. I don't think there's debate about that.

Whether memorization is useful on its own largely depends on the task.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#20

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

Just have the program point out the size of the word pool it's drawing from. "Number go up" is objective and clearly motivates people in other disciplines (someone else mentioned lifting weights).
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