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Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

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Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#11

Post by leejo »

cedilla wrote: post #5

I'll never understand the amount of vitriol Wikipedia volunteers must receive. Why is the deletion (or even deletion proposal) regarded as such a heinous act that people feel the need to attack and bully others? I find this kind of behaviour and rethoric wholly unacceptable.

> Why is the deletion (or even deletion proposal) regarded as such a heinous act that people feel the need to attack and bully others?

FWIW I don't see this as an attack (with, perhaps, the exception of a couple of comments in the linked thread) and posted the link to the reddit thread as I see it more as an interesting observation around the myriad issues facing "legacy" languages and communities. To wit:

* Google appears to be canon for finding secondary sources, according to the various arguments in the deletion proposals, yet we're all aware of how abysmal Google's search has been for a while now.

* What's the future of this policy given the fractured nature of the web these days, walled gardens, and now LLMs?

* An article's history appears to be irrelevant in the deletion discussion: the CPAN page (now kept) had 24 years of history on Wikipedia, with dozens of sources, yet was nominated for deletion.

* Link rot is pervasive, we all knew this, but just how much of Wikipedia is being held up by the waybackmachine?

* Doesn't this become a negative feedback cycle? Few sources exist, therefore we remove sources, therefore fewer sources exist.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#12

Post by EdwardDiego »

DrScientist wrote: post #7

Wikipedia has a page for an Egyptian King that ruled for perhaps only 10 years 5000 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anedjib Why is that still relevant? Or to put it another way when does the contemporary move into interesting history?

When did the Perl Monks run a kingdom?

Apples and oranges.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#13

Post by pwdisswordfishy »

leejo wrote: post #11
cedilla wrote: post #5

I'll never understand the amount of vitriol Wikipedia volunteers must receive. Why is the deletion (or even deletion proposal) regarded as such a heinous act that people feel the need to attack and bully others? I find this kind of behaviour and rethoric wholly unacceptable.

> Why is the deletion (or even deletion proposal) regarded as such a heinous act that people feel the need to attack and bully others? FWIW I don't see this as an attack (with, perhaps, the exception of a couple of comments in the linked thread) and posted the link to the reddit thread as I see it more as an interesting observation around the myriad issues facing "legacy" languages and communities. To wit: * Google a…

> Google appears to be canon for finding secondary sources, according to the various arguments in the deletion proposals, yet we're all aware of how abysmal Google's search has been for a while now.

Nobody is forcing you to use Google. If you can provide an acceptable source without the help of Google, go ahead. But the burden of proof is on the one who claims sources exist.

> An article's history appears to be irrelevant in the deletion discussion: the CPAN page (now kept) had 24 years of history on Wikipedia, with dozens of sources, yet was nominated for deletion.

Such is life when anyone can nominate anything at any moment... and when many articles that should have never been submitted in the first place slip through cracks of haphazard volunteer quality control. (Stack Overflow also suffers from the latter.)

The sources is the only part that matters. And they sufficed to keep the CPAN article on site, so the system works.

> Doesn't this become a negative feedback cycle? Few sources exist, therefore we remove sources, therefore fewer sources exist.

It was wrong to submit the article without sourcing in the first place. Circular sourcing is not allowed.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#14

Post by mrjay42 »

So this is about PerlMonks, which I knew nothing about until today.

I searched it, the site is down The Wikipedia article is deleted

This is pure loss of information somehow.

I and a lot of other people in the future will never know what "perlmonks" is/are, how important it was?, etc. etc.

The logic seems to be: if tomorrow Stack Exchange disappears, the Wikipedia article will be deleted? If yes, then that makes zero sense.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#15

Post by snvzz »

pella wrote: post #4

The new rule of notability: if it’s no longer in Google’s index, it basically doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion... "From a Google search, I wasn’t able to find" appears multiple times on that page alone.

In short, Google decides what stays in Wikipedia.

Neat. Not.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#16

Post by orwin »

snvzz wrote: post #15
pella wrote: post #4

The new rule of notability: if it’s no longer in Google’s index, it basically doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion... "From a Google search, I wasn’t able to find" appears multiple times on that page alone.

In short, Google decides what stays in Wikipedia. Neat. Not.

Not really,if that thing is cited on notable papers or books, it stays too.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#17

Post by ptrl600 »

cedilla wrote: post #5

I'll never understand the amount of vitriol Wikipedia volunteers must receive. Why is the deletion (or even deletion proposal) regarded as such a heinous act that people feel the need to attack and bully others? I find this kind of behaviour and rethoric wholly unacceptable.

Because it puts the history of the article behind a lock

I wonder if there are any privileged Wikipedia accounts who have defected and are doing a sci-hub thing.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#18

Post by snvzz »

orwin wrote: post #16
snvzz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, Google decides what stays in Wikipedia. Neat. Not.

Not really,if that thing is cited on notable papers or books, it stays too.

Except if Google decides otherwise.

And then Wikipedia follows suit.

Re: Perl articles are being memory wiped from Wikipedia

#19

Post by literalAardvark »

snvzz wrote: post #18
orwin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really,if that thing is cited on notable papers or books, it stays too.

Except if Google decides otherwise. And then Wikipedia follows suit.

No.

The Google search wouldn't even have happened had the article had sources listed for the claim.

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