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The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

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Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#12

Post by mschuster91 »

> You name the quality directly. You point at it. You own it.

Fun thing: it works even better with Americans and Germans when it comes to negativity, because Germans also express negativity directly. For me, as a German, Americans want to be coddled and they do not like it if you clearly express to an American that he is bullshitting you. Germans (and I'd say, Germanic/Nordic-origin cultures as a whole) don't like wasting time coddling around and sucking up for no reason at all. We're an efficient people, after all.

That's also a part of why Linus Torvalds is such a polarizing figure across the Internet. To me as a German, yes, he could dial down the ad-hominem a bit but that's it. The constant American whining about his tone however is... grating on my nerves. He's speaking the truth, accept it for what it is and move the fuck on.

Oh, and it's also why Wal-Mart failed so disastrously many decades ago when they tried to enter Germany. Ignoring labor rights was bad enough, but we could have let that slide (given that our own discounters were all heavily embroiled in scandals)... but what was just way too uncanny from what I hear from older people who actually lived during that time was the greeters. And it matches up with many a write-up [1].

[1] https://medium.com/the-global-millennial/why-walmart-failed-...

Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#14

Post by crooked-v »

Something about this article strikes home for me. I default to 'not bad' for something I don't actively dislike; past that it's a pretty substantial jump to get to 'good', at probably about the same point I'd be willing to actively recommend something to someone else, and then even more substantial to get to anything like 'great'.

Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#15

Post by sph »

tomww wrote: post #9
kimixa wrote: post #7

As a Brit, I'm not quite sure this article is right in it's declaration it's a universal "English" thing and not more "American English".

Yep, "not bad" is very very common here - definitely more so than "decent".

"How are you?" "Not too bad" always makes me smile. Such a British answer.

Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#16

Post by BalinKing »

crote wrote: post #10
skybrian wrote: post #2

Maybe there's a difference in frequency of usage, but we also say things like "he's not wrong" pretty often in English.

I reckon a decept part of that is due to American English vs. British English. A great example of this is the Korean War, where a British brigadier in an extremely difficult situation told an American general "Things are a bit sticky, sir" - who interpreted it as "Could be better, but we're holding the line". The misunderstanding resulted in 500 dead and captured.

FWIW I’m not quite convinced there’s that much of a dialectical divide: “Not bad,” “he’s not wrong,” etc. sound entirely natural to me in American English.

Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#18

Post by seszett »

alwa wrote: post #8
BurritoAlPastor wrote: post #4

The language pattern the author refers to is called litotes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes ), but to say that English doesn’t use them is… not quite right.

Not quite right, but not quite wrong, no? The pattern seems similar, but I think of litotes (as the Wikipedia article suggests) as a rhetorical device: the assertion-by-negation carries an ironic charge, and strikes the (Western) ear by standing out from the ordinary affirmative register. If I'm understanding the author's account of Chinese assertion-by-negation correctly, doesn't it sound like assertion-by-negation…

I think it's especially American English that doesn't use litotes as much as British English or the other Western European languages.

This piece seems to be very much about American English, when I read something like:

> In English, this feels bizarre. If something is good, you say: Nice Great Perfect Brilliant

Re: The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

#19

Post by messe »

seszett wrote: post #18
alwa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite right, but not quite wrong, no? The pattern seems similar, but I think of litotes (as the Wikipedia article suggests) as a rhetorical device: the assertion-by-negation carries an ironic charge, and strikes the (Western) ear by standing out from the ordinary affirmative register. If I'm understanding the author's account of Chinese assertion-by-negation correctly, doesn't it sound like assertion-by-negation…

I think it's especially American English that doesn't use litotes as much as British English or the other Western European languages. This piece seems to be very much about American English, when I read something like: > In English, this feels bizarre. If something is good, you say: Nice Great Perfect Brilliant

I think Hiberno-English uses them even more.
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