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Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

ncees.org

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Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#11

Post by ktsmith »

marcomonteiro wrote: post #7
ktsmith wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if state government and possibly federal government programming jobs required it for all but entry level jobs as they currently do with things like civil engineers.

Do you think it would have a significant impact in the private sector though?

I think ntkachov is probably right and that this will augment hiring practices by some companies as a key indicator for HR to bring someone in for an interview. There could also be a trend for companies working on critical infrastructure (power, water, transportation, etc), government contracts (Boeing, Lockheed Martin and hundreds of others) to start requiring you to have a PE to work on critical or real time systems.

I don't think the majority of companies hiring programmers will care at all about a PE or even require it. For most programming jobs the varied level of knowledge required to complete the exam probably isn't necessary.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#13

Post by marcomonteiro »

ktsmith wrote: post #11
marcomonteiro wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it would have a significant impact in the private sector though?

I think ntkachov is probably right and that this will augment hiring practices by some companies as a key indicator for HR to bring someone in for an interview. There could also be a trend for companies working on critical infrastructure (power, water, transportation, etc), government contracts (Boeing, Lockheed Martin and hundreds of others) to start requiring you to have a PE to work on critical or real time system…

I guess a more direct question would be how and if this will help a self-taught developer be more competitive. I'm self-taught. I've been studying and "practicing" programming since I was a kid but I never finished a BSCS and I often feel that hurts me. So recently I re-enrolled in school but I'm a long ways away from finishing and want to continue building iOS apps while going to school. This seems like it could be a quicker road to establishing credibility (other than experience) before earning my degree. Thoughts?

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#14

Post by potatolicious »

tomkinstinch wrote: post #3

What does this mean for people currently working as programmers? Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?

> "Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?"

Only if you intend to work for code sweatshops and "consultancies" that value credentialing above track record/experience.

In other words, if you're stuck at the bottom of the programming jobs barrel, it may behoove you to get this. For those of us lucky enough to avoid that fate, we'll spend more time laughing at it than studying it.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#15

Post by ktsmith »

marcomonteiro wrote: post #13
ktsmith wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ntkachov is probably right and that this will augment hiring practices by some companies as a key indicator for HR to bring someone in for an interview. There could also be a trend for companies working on critical infrastructure (power, water, transportation, etc), government contracts (Boeing, Lockheed Martin and hundreds of others) to start requiring you to have a PE to work on critical or real time system…

I guess a more direct question would be how and if this will help a self-taught developer be more competitive. I'm self-taught. I've been studying and "practicing" programming since I was a kid but I never finished a BSCS and I often feel that hurts me. So recently I re-enrolled in school but I'm a long ways away from finishing and want to continue building iOS apps while going to school. This seems like it could be…

This may not be of any benefit for those that are self taught. If you look at current licensing requirements which vary by state some require that you have a BS from an accredited engineering program. It's likely this will also be the case for this new PE license. Of course it all depends on the state, in some states for some licenses only a high school diploma is required.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#16

Post by eropple »

ntkachov wrote: post #10
spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

Really? Just because its structured like waterfall doesn't mean its "how to do waterfall". I read the req spec and there isn't a thing on here that isn't valuable information for every engineer no matter what process they use. Read what it actually covers and the topics they test and tell me there's something on there that is completely useless.

UML, unless you live in the land of too-tight blue ties.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#17

Post by spamizbad »

ntkachov wrote: post #10
spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

Really? Just because its structured like waterfall doesn't mean its "how to do waterfall". I read the req spec and there isn't a thing on here that isn't valuable information for every engineer no matter what process they use. Read what it actually covers and the topics they test and tell me there's something on there that is completely useless.

Couldn't disagree more. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

I've worked in waterfall shops. Sections I through V are very similar to what we aspired to do. Look, it's not like this knowledge is worthless. It's just that what is outlined in these sections is a very thorough but expensive ($$$ and labor) and time-consuming process that that when put into practice often insulates itself from the business problem at hand. Just because it looks good on paper does not mean it will look good when you start applying it to the real world with real people.

I'll say this: If you want to participate in an organization that is culturally waterfall and practices waterfall this certification will prove quite valuable. Anywhere else though, and you might give the impression you're not a good "culture fit" for the organization.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#19

Post by demian »

spamizbad wrote: post #17
ntkachov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Just because its structured like waterfall doesn't mean its "how to do waterfall". I read the req spec and there isn't a thing on here that isn't valuable information for every engineer no matter what process they use. Read what it actually covers and the topics they test and tell me there's something on there that is completely useless.

Couldn't disagree more. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck... I've worked in waterfall shops. Sections I through V are very similar to what we aspired to do. Look, it's not like this knowledge is worthless. It's just that what is outlined in these sections is a very thorough but expensive ($$$ and labor) and time-consuming process that that when put into practice often insulates itself from the busine…

But "activities" are not "phases". You are always trying to get the requirements right, the difference is that some people get them while coding, and others before even start designing.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#20

Post by barik »

jboggan wrote: post #5

Many years ago when I thought I was going to go into patent law (egads) I ended up taking the Fundamentals of Engineering exam and passing it as an Engineer-In-Training. Does this mean I can do four years of software engineering and then certify as a PE?

Generally, the PE exam itself is considered one of the least difficult portions of the process, though it's still stressful for certain disciplines. The PE exam topics are also generally known to lag reality, regardless of discipline, and often by a decade. It's also open book and some people bring entire carts of books, though I find that not to be very effective since you basically only have six minutes per question.

The major part of the application process is that you will need to work under the direct supervision of a PE, and have increasing levels of documented responsibility, which is often harder to satisfy. Depending on the state, three of the five (minimum) of your recommendations must come from licensed PEs, who need to be able to certify more about you than simply your character.

Usually when threads like this appear, too much emphasis is placed on the exam rather than the requirements that allow you to sit for the exam in the first place. The PE license process is not like a Microsoft or Cisco certification. It took me a good six months to get all the paperwork ready to apply for the exam. I minimally studied for the exam itself. Consequently, four years ends up being more like five or six, in my case, due to less than stellar record keeping.

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