Live data from Hacker News

Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

experimental-history.com

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#12

why not use "affordances"? it's the correct word, and even though it's low-frequency, wouldn't that pull people into the article?

The article mentions affordances. I assume the title uses doorknobs because that's a more familiar word as you point out.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#13

>Givers think that conversations unfold as a series of invitations; takers think conversations unfold as a series of declarations. I don't really understand the thesis outlined in the article. "Givers" and "takers" are defined like this, but it actually sounds like the two types of conversationalists are "actives" and "passives", where actives seek to move the conversation forward and passives let others move it forw…

On a quick skim, my interpretation is that the article critiques the classic (but simplistic) advice that asking questions and letting the other person talk more than you is the key to having a good conversation, especially to ensuring that the other person is happy with the conversation.

The classic advice is basically a caution against being a boring monologuer. And it has its merit. But this is an extra "level 2 conversationalist" lesson. It's the old: "OK remember those rules you learned in level 1? Here's when you can break them".

Th affordance analogy is that you want to give yourself and your conversation partner an abundance of options and opportunities for good conversation. Asking questions often is a way of doing that, but it's not the only way, and not all questions are equally helpful.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#14
post #10
post #7

>(“What’s up?” is one of the most dreadful texts to get; it’s short for “Hello, I’d like you to entertain me now.”) And asking your partner question after question and resenting them when they don’t return the favor isn’t generosity; it’s social entrapment I'm not a great texter but this resonated with me and I'd never really thought about it. It's annoying when I don't feel like texting and I just get bombarded with…

And then, if you don't make any questions, they may think that you don't care enough about them. Also, if you just often share information that is interesting to you, some may think you are tedious/boring. Socializing is really hard.

Notice that both your sentences are trying to control the other person's reaction and feelings towards you. If that is your idea of socializing, I would come to the same conclusion.

As cliche as it is, find things in others that genuinely interest you. And don't expect it be a fruitful experience. There are so many reasons the socializing ritual can end up being unfulfilling.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#15
I think this framework explains why the best presentations aren't the ones packed with the most information. Like a slide full of bullet points feels kind of like a frictionless wall to me - there's nothing for the audience to grab onto. But a slide with one provocative question, or a single surprising statistic, is covered in doorknobs. It gives people something to mentally reach for.

The flip side: slides designed by committee oftem tend to remove all the doorknobs. Every bold claim seems to gets softened, every interesting aside gets cut for time, etc., until you're left with something that nobody can disagree with but nobody finds very interesting either.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#17
The articles employs the concept of Affordances, which comes largely from JJ Gibson, a brilliant psychologist who studied perception.

I used to teach a course on Gibson... so I'd like to clarify what he meant by affordances, which is a bit more powerful of an idea than presented in the article

His insight was that how you perceive something is not objective, but subjective. Or as he would say, the subjective turns out to be objective reality. So affordances reflects the fact that how you relate to something is in terms of what it affords you. A good example: An excellent downhill skier sees a near vertical drop as easy-peasy and not dangerous. The same skier learning to snowboard pulls up at this veritable cliff and says, holy shit, that's steep! Same physical world changes depending on how you relate to it on the present circumstances

JJ Gibson used such ideas to overthrow the object reality idea of perception, suggesting that perception is inherently a being-in-the-world phenomenon, not an objective knowing of the world (that exists, but is secondary and stripped of subjective experience).

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then, if you don't make any questions, they may think that you don't care enough about them. Also, if you just often share information that is interesting to you, some may think you are tedious/boring. Socializing is really hard.

Notice that both your sentences are trying to control the other person's reaction and feelings towards you. If that is your idea of socializing, I would come to the same conclusion. As cliche as it is, find things in others that genuinely interest you. And don't expect it be a fruitful experience. There are so many reasons the socializing ritual can end up being unfulfilling.

Did you notice? People tends to interpret others in the worst possible way; even you inferred from my two short sentences that I am a controlling person. I'm not offended, it's just funny, and kind of reinforces my previous point.

Regarding your interpretation, I respectfully disagree. I think there is a huge difference between influencing someone to do what you want and simply being careful with what you say in order to avoid triggering negative responses/feelings in your peers.

I don't think the latter falls into being controlling/manipulative in any way, on the contrary, I think it is the base of good social etiquette, and I prefer to be surrounded by people who behave like that than the opposite.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#19
Interesting to read that people like that you answer in milliseconds to their questions or suggestions.

I very often interrupt people when eagerly fitting into a conversation. That happens almost automatically and sometimes I apologize and say, sorry i was interrupting what you are saying... Often they don't continue where they got interrupted but don't seem annoyed.

Maybe it has to do with those emerging doorknobs i noticed and couldn't resist in grabbing.

Re: Good conversations have lots of doorknobs (2022)

#20
post #3

I wish it were easier to just say to someone. Hey I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but I’m feeling to end this conversation now. Is it OK that we bring it to an end?

I don't understand, could you elaborate?

In my perception ending a conversation is much easier than keeping it alive. People will pick up easily that you are not interested, even in the non verbal part of communication, no?

Post reply on HN