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DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

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Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#11

Post by bigyabai »

TIPSIO wrote: post #9

It's awesome that stuff like this is open source, but even if you have a basement rig with 4 NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 graphic cards ($15-20k machine), can it even run with any reasonable context window that isn't like a crawling 10/tps? Frontier models are far exceeding even the most hardcore consumer hobbyist requirements. This is even further

People with basement rigs generally aren't the target audience for these gigantic models. You'd get much better results out of an MoE model like Qwen3's A3B/A22B weights, if you're running a homelab setup.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#12

Post by bilbo0s »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #8
jodleif wrote: post #5

I genuinely do not understand the evaluations of the US AI industry. The chinese models are so close and far cheaper

Valuation is not based on what they have done but what they might do, I agree tho it's investment made with very little insight into Chinese research. I guess it's counting on deepseek being banned and all computers in America refusing to run open software by the year 2030 /snark

>I guess it's counting on deepseek being banned

And the people making the bets are in a position to make sure the banning happens. The US government system being what it is.

Not that our leaders need any incentive to ban Chinese tech in this space. Just pointing out that it's not necessarily a "bet".

"Bet" imply you don't know the outcome and you have no influence over the outcome. Even "investment" implies you don't know the outcome. I'm not sure that's the case with these people?

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#14

Post by Spivak »

bigyabai wrote: post #11
TIPSIO wrote: post #9

It's awesome that stuff like this is open source, but even if you have a basement rig with 4 NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 graphic cards ($15-20k machine), can it even run with any reasonable context window that isn't like a crawling 10/tps? Frontier models are far exceeding even the most hardcore consumer hobbyist requirements. This is even further

People with basement rigs generally aren't the target audience for these gigantic models. You'd get much better results out of an MoE model like Qwen3's A3B/A22B weights, if you're running a homelab setup.

Yeah I think the advantage of OSS models is that you can get your pick of providers and aren't locked into just Anthropic or just OpenAI.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#15

Post by csomar »

jasonsb wrote: post #10
jodleif wrote: post #5

I genuinely do not understand the evaluations of the US AI industry. The chinese models are so close and far cheaper

It's all about the hardware and infrastructure. If you check OpenRouter, no provider offers a SOTA chinese model matching the speed of Claude, GPT or Gemini. The chinese models may benchmark close on paper, but real-world deployment is different. So you either buy your own hardware in order to run a chinese model at 150-200tps or give up an use one of the Big 3. The US labs aren't just selling models, they're selling…

According to OpenRouter, z.ai is 50% faster than Anthropic; which matches my experience. z.ai does have frequent downtimes but so does Claude.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#18

Post by isamuel »

jodleif wrote: post #5

I genuinely do not understand the evaluations of the US AI industry. The chinese models are so close and far cheaper

There is a great deal of orientalism --- it is genuinely unthinkable to a lot of American tech dullards that the Chinese could be better at anything requiring what they think of as "intelligence." Aren't they Communist? Backward? Don't they eat weird stuff at wet markets?

It reminds me, in an encouraging way, of the way that German military planners regarded the Soviet Union in the lead-up to Operation Barbarossa. The Slavs are an obviously inferior race; their Bolshevism dooms them; we have the will to power; we will succeed. Even now, when you ask questions like what you ask of that era, the answers you get are genuinely not better than "yes, this should have been obvious at the time if you were not completely blinded by ethnic and especially ideological prejudice."

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#19

Post by newyankee »

isamuel wrote: post #18
jodleif wrote: post #5

I genuinely do not understand the evaluations of the US AI industry. The chinese models are so close and far cheaper

There is a great deal of orientalism --- it is genuinely unthinkable to a lot of American tech dullards that the Chinese could be better at anything requiring what they think of as "intelligence." Aren't they Communist? Backward? Don't they eat weird stuff at wet markets? It reminds me, in an encouraging way, of the way that German military planners regarded the Soviet Union in the lead-up to Operation Barbarossa. Th…

but didn't Chinese already surpass the rest of the world in Solar, batteries, EVs among other things ?

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#20

Post by jodleif »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #8
jodleif wrote: post #5

I genuinely do not understand the evaluations of the US AI industry. The chinese models are so close and far cheaper

Valuation is not based on what they have done but what they might do, I agree tho it's investment made with very little insight into Chinese research. I guess it's counting on deepseek being banned and all computers in America refusing to run open software by the year 2030 /snark

> Valuation is not based on what they have done but what they might do

Exactly what I’m thinking. Chinese models catching rapidly. Soon to be on-par with the big dogs.

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