While llms accept json schemas for constrained decoding, they might not respect all of the constraints.
Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
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Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
And what makes this different? What makes it LLM-native?
It generates schemas that are strict by default while Zod requires you to set everything manually. This is actually discussed in the linked article (READ ME file).
That's not true based on zod docs. https://zod.dev/api?id=objects
most of the claims you're making against zod is inaccurate. the readme feels like false claims by ai.
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#13Had you considered using something like XML as the transport format rather than JSON? If the UX is similar to zod it wouldn't matter what the underlying data format is, and XML is meant to support schemas unlike JSON.
JSON Schema is a schema built on JSON and it’s already being used. Using XML would mean converting the XML into JSON schema to define the response from the LLM. That said, JSON is “language neutral” but also super convenient for JavaScript developers and typically more convenient for most people than XML.
LLMs are not people.
We want a format for LLMs or for people?
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
What led you to that conclusion?
Zod's validation errors are awful, the json schema it generates for LLM is ugly and and often confusing, the types structures Zod creates are often unintelligible in the and there's even no good way to pretty print a schema when you're debugging. Things are even worse if you're stuck with zod/v3
None of this makes a lot of sense. Validation errors are largely irrelevant for LLMs and they can understand them just fine. The type structure looks good for LLMs. You can definitely pretty print a schema at runtime.
This all seems pretty uninformed.
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
JSON Schema is a schema built on JSON and it’s already being used. Using XML would mean converting the XML into JSON schema to define the response from the LLM. That said, JSON is “language neutral” but also super convenient for JavaScript developers and typically more convenient for most people than XML.
LLMs are not people. We want a format for LLMs or for people?
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Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
JSON Schema is a schema built on JSON and it’s already being used. Using XML would mean converting the XML into JSON schema to define the response from the LLM. That said, JSON is “language neutral” but also super convenient for JavaScript developers and typically more convenient for most people than XML.
LLMs are not people. We want a format for LLMs or for people?
JSON schema is very human readable.
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#17> It checks a fixed sample of items (roughly 1%) regardless of size
> This provides O(1) performance
Wouldn’t 1% of N still imply O(N) performance?
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#18> It checks a fixed sample of items (roughly 1%) regardless of size > This provides O(1) performance Wouldn’t 1% of N still imply O(N) performance?
N is increasing. O(1) means constant (actually capped). We never check more than 100 items.
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
It generates schemas that are strict by default while Zod requires you to set everything manually. This is actually discussed in the linked article (READ ME file).
That's not true based on zod docs. https://zod.dev/api?id=objects most of the claims you're making against zod is inaccurate. the readme feels like false claims by ai.
It seems to be true to me. And aside from the API stuff (because I am far from an expert user of Zod) all of this has been carefully verified.
Re: Tosijs-schema is a super lightweight schema-first LLM-native JSON schema library
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
JSON Schema is a schema built on JSON and it’s already being used. Using XML would mean converting the XML into JSON schema to define the response from the LLM. That said, JSON is “language neutral” but also super convenient for JavaScript developers and typically more convenient for most people than XML.
LLMs are not people. We want a format for LLMs or for people?
As a person myself, I very much prefer JSON