Live data from Hacker News

A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

mastodon.gamedev.place

11–20 of 88 posts

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#11
post #4

Meta: I'm going to make a Twitter clone that bans you if you use it as a multi-paragraph blogging platform... god damn !#@#%!!!.

Here’s a link with the thread unrolled onto a single page: https://mastoreader.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmastodon.gamedev.p...

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#13

Wait, so is that "beta" of Half Life 2 VR a thing I can play? If it is, how did I not know about this, and if not... why not? I'd also love to play Portal, actually. They say it makes you sick, but to my knowledge I'm immune from VR motion sickness, so worth a try...

There’s a great VR mod for Portal 2. Played it all the way through. Surprisingly comfortable to play too.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#14

I wonder how on earth stuff like x86->ARM translation works so well if games break even after switching from x87 registers to SSE preserving all the logic otherwise...

I think x87 fpu is the only 'weird' floating point units left. I think if you stick with 64-bit double precision floats or 32-bit single precision floats, where the registers are also 64 or 32 bits, all the modern stuff behaves the same. x87 is just weird because registers are 80-bits ... the idea was to have more accurate results from more precision, but it ends up weird because if you run out of registers and have to spill to memory, you typically lose precision.

Edit: since this post was second chanced, I can add on that some of the pre-PC consoles have weird floats too. If they had floats at all. Lots of fun for emulation developers. Even fun for contemporaneous game developers... PilotWings on the SNES comes with different revision accelerator chips and the demo only works properly on the early revision chips (but I think? the later revision chips have more accurate math). The PS2 FPU has weirdness around NaN, Infinity, very large numbers, and denormalized numbers. Etc.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#15
Ah, nice story!

This reminds me of another story with FPU involved. I was a game developer once. We were making a game that consistently triggered assertion failures related to FPU calculations, but only on a single PC in the whole office. The game was explicitly setting FPU precision to 32 bits at the start to make all calculations more consistent. However, on that particular PC, there was a fancy hand writing input software that injected its DLL into every process. As you've probably already guessed, that DLL did FPU mode reset to the default in the event handling loop (i.e., main thread). I had to shift FPU mode setting code from process initialization to the event handling loop to be able to deal with the damage that third party DLLs could inflict.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#16
post #15

Ah, nice story! This reminds me of another story with FPU involved. I was a game developer once. We were making a game that consistently triggered assertion failures related to FPU calculations, but only on a single PC in the whole office. The game was explicitly setting FPU precision to 32 bits at the start to make all calculations more consistent. However, on that particular PC, there was a fancy hand writing input…

nice detective work. Global FPU state had sure caused a lot of headaches.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#17

I wonder how on earth stuff like x86->ARM translation works so well if games break even after switching from x87 registers to SSE preserving all the logic otherwise...

It's probably because you have to have weird precision issues where the numbers are calculated ever so slightly differently, and some other effect like a guard being slightly too close and getting clipped by a door where that difference matters.

I debugged some software synthesizer code a while back (like 20 years or so now I think of it) where a build of it on one platform failed because of a precision bug. I can't remember the details, but there was a lot of "works fine on my machine" type discussion around it. Anyway it relied on a crude simulation of an RC circuit reaching very close to 0 asymptotically to trigger a state change, but on something like 64-bit Intel with a specific processor it never quite made it low enough to trip the comparison because of something to do with not flushing denormals.

From an electronic standpoint, making it simulate "it's high enough" as being about 0.7 and " it's low enough" being about 0.01 was far closer to the instrument they were trying to simulate, and making it massively imprecise like that got it going on everything.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#18

It seems to be typical - some calculations break while switching from x87 to SSE. The same happened with TF2 too - it's ammo calculation code worked slightly differently on GNU/Linux build of the game, because it was built with SSE instructions (Windows version still used x87).

I’m surprised to hear the ammo calculation code would use floats.

Re: A time-travelling door bug in Half Life 2

#19
It's a goal of mine to get Valve using Nix. (I hope our in-progress Windows support would make this especially compelling.)

One advantage of this is that it will become very easy to not only build the original source of the game, but also build it with the original toolchain and dependencies, the toolchains for those dependencies, etc. etc., all the way down.

Hopefully something like that at your finger trips would have made finding the root cause of this bug a good bit easier!

Post reply on HN