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Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

satcom.digital

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Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#11

Post by hbrav »

This article is quite frustrating, since all that it really tells me is that their system "generates thrust without using any propellant and without expelling reaction mass, by directly converting electrical energy into thrust through controlled electromagnetic impulses".

That's rather non-specific. My first thought was that they're using photon momentum, but thinking about that a little harder rules it out. The ratio of energy to momentum doesn't change with any properties of the photon (they're both proportional to frequency) so there's nothing to really develop there: so long as you waste very little power as heat, you might as well be shining a well-collimated flashlight.

Options 3 and 4 from [this paper](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2510.21743), _magnetic sails_ and _solar sails_, seem more promising. Is that what Genergo are doing? I have no idea. The article doesn't tell me.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#14

Post by nickff »

a-priori wrote: post #2

They say it works "by directly converting electrical energy into thrust through controlled electromagnetic impulses", so I assume it's reacting against the Earth's magnetic field using the Lorentz force?

I suspect that you’re right, but I believe that I heard something about a similar ‘drive’ being used on some sort of telescope satellite in the past (though I can’t remember the specifics).

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#15

Post by drillsteps5 »

I remember in the 80s, after mostly having given up on perpetuuum mobile, bunch of people were trying to invent something like this, using vibration etc which worked on Earth but would not in a vacuum... Looks like a new generation took the baton. Like this guy:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a65924333/eng...

An Engineer Says He’s Found a Way to Overcome Earth’s Gravity

This new propulsion system could rewrite the rules of spaceflight—not to mention completely defy conventional physics.

"In 2001, British Electrical Engineer Roger Shawyer first introduced the “impossible drive,” known as the EmDrive. It was called “impossible” because its creator purported that the drive was reactionless, meaning no propellant required—in other words, it defied the known laws of physics (specifically, the conservation of momentum)."

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#16

Post by Terr_ »

My money's on fake woo-woo.

At first—like many others here—I thought it might just be a terribly-written explanation for a device that uses Earth's magnetic field, so that the planet itself is the "reaction mass" being pushed around... but I'm not seeing that in a quick patent search for the company.

Instead, there's a bunch of stuff that seems like perpetual-motion-machine crankery, where their "motor" depends on a oscillating some mass back and forth inside a chamber using special frequencies and "waveforms", which somehow imparts some acceleration which they explain as "generating mass."

Perhaps did use Earth's magnetic field through pure experimental error, and they either haven't realized it or think they can bilk investors by presenting it as something new.

_________

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11462985B2/en :

> The inertial mass of an object varies with the variation of its magnetic field and therefore a variation of inertia can be created which leads to the generation of mass by varying the magnetization of the motor and its constituent elements (at given times, as explained above).

> [...] the variation of “mass” is generated by the overmagnetization or undermagnetization of the motor itself in conjunction with given “shocks” or interactions between the magnetic piston and the two buffer magnets [...]

https://patents.justia.com/patent/11462985 :

> [In] general the motor or the moving system according to the present invention consists of an electromagnetically charged body which moves within a delimited volume of space being accelerated and decelerated electromagnetically in controlled manner during its movement within said volume of space.

> Such accelerations/decelerations generate a force on the volume inside which the mass moves and allow the volume of space to move.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#18

Post by Sanzig »

I am highly skeptical. A reactionless thruster is the holy grail of propulsion systems, but there are no known physics which permit it to work. A photon rocket would allow momentum exchange without mass consumption, but a quick look at the math shows it would be infeasible (hundreds of megawatts per newton).

My guess is this works at all, it is inadvertently expelling reaction mass somehow, such as ablating off small amounts of volatiles from polymer parts (like an inefficient version of a pulsed plasma thruster).

I'd love to be wrong, but this very much falls into the "extraordinary claims" category for me.

Re: Genergo: Propellantless space-propulsion system

#20

Post by maremmano »

wat10000 wrote: post #10

1. No info given about how this system works. 2. No info about how it supposedly produces thrust. 3. No numbers given except for number of hours tested in orbit. No thrust or power consumption figures. 4. Violates pretty widely accepted law of physics. Yeah, I'm ever so slightly skeptical.

It so happens that a friend of a friend of mine works at this company. I'll ask for some details.
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