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The terminal of the future

jyn.dev

11–20 of 174 posts

Re: The terminal of the future

#11
What do you mean by “terminal”? Perhaps you are referring to something like a VT100.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DEC_VT100_terminal.j...

I may disappoint you with the fact that IBM PC-compatible computers have replaced devices of that class. We can only observe certain terminal emulators in some operating systems. There have been many attempts to expand the functionality of these emulators. However, most features beyond the capabilities of VT100 have not caught on (except UTF-8 support). I do not believe that anything will change in the foreseeable future.

Re: The terminal of the future

#13
I read the whole thing and at first glance, it seems like a whole NIH list of wishes. We already have alternatives to the terminal, but the article have no mentions of them:

- Emacs (inherited from lisp machines?). A VM which is powered by lisp. The latter make it easy to redefine function, and commands are just annotated functions. As for output, we have the buffer, which can be displayed in windows, which are arranged in a tiling manner in a frame. And you can have several frames. As the buffer in a window as the same grid like basis as the terminal emulator, we can use cli as is, including like a terminal emulator (vterm, eat, ansi-term,...). You can eschew the terminal flow and use the REPL flow instead (shell-mode, eshell,...). There's support for graphics, but not a full 2d context.

- Acme: Kinda similar to emacs, but the whole thing is mostly about interactive text. Meaning any text can be a command. We also have the tiling/and stacking windows things that displays those texts.

I would add Smalltalk to that, but it's more of an IDE than a full computing environment. But to extend it to the latter would still be a lower effort than what is described in the article.

Re: The terminal of the future

#14
I appreciated the Pluto.jl mention! Going from Pluto notebooks that understand data flow to Jupyter notebooks where you have to tell the computer which order to run the cells in is always baffling to me. Why doesn't Jupyter know the run order and dependencies already? The way Pluto handles dependencies between code cells is really just so nice.

Re: The terminal of the future

#15
post #9

This I am afraid does not feel as the right thing to do. I think the KISS-principle is a good standard to follow and while terminals have to do more than one thing, it should not do everything. Complexity leads to instability. Terminals has to be nimble and not clumsy behemoths like web browsers.

Terminals are far from simple, that's the whole problem. We carry the weight of decades of technical constraints and arbitrary decisions on our shoulders every time we fire up a terminal emulator.

Re: The terminal of the future

#16

I appreciated the Pluto.jl mention! Going from Pluto notebooks that understand data flow to Jupyter notebooks where you have to tell the computer which order to run the cells in is always baffling to me. Why doesn't Jupyter know the run order and dependencies already? The way Pluto handles dependencies between code cells is really just so nice.

If you haven't yet do check out Marimo

[0] https://marimo.io/

Re: The terminal of the future

#17

I read the whole thing and at first glance, it seems like a whole NIH list of wishes. We already have alternatives to the terminal, but the article have no mentions of them: - Emacs (inherited from lisp machines?). A VM which is powered by lisp. The latter make it easy to redefine function, and commands are just annotated functions. As for output, we have the buffer, which can be displayed in windows, which are arran…

i would describe the main idea of the post as opening up the data model of the terminal. the list of wishes are an example of things you can build once you've done that, not the primary reason that opening the data model is useful.

Re: The terminal of the future

#18
Re "stage 2: persistent sessions", iTerm2 already does this. The PTYs are owned by background processes independent of the GUI application. So iTerm2 can upgrade the application without interrupting the running terminal sessions.

Re: The terminal of the future

#19
post #18

Re "stage 2: persistent sessions", iTerm2 already does this. The PTYs are owned by background processes independent of the GUI application. So iTerm2 can upgrade the application without interrupting the running terminal sessions.

this is really cool omg! i didn't know that, i'll do some research.

one of the strange things to me about the terminal landscape is how little knowledge sharing there is compared to other domains i'm familiar with. iTerm has a bunch of things no one else has; kitty influenced wezterm but otherwise no one else seems to have valued reflection; there's a whole bunch of extensions to ANSI escapes but most of them are non-standard and mutually incompatible. it's weird. if i compare to something like build systems, there's a lot more cross-pollination of ideas there.

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