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Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

nytimes.com

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Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#11

Post by BLKNSLVR »

gonzo41 wrote: post #3
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

Counterpoint, the US has better other systems. Such as the 1st,2nd,3rd largest air forces in the world. Lots of Ukrainian commanders would happily trade FPV drones with grenades attached for mortar teams with lots of ammo and effective aircover. Modern militaries need drones, but the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play.

Ultimately I think this is true, but you can't overlook any aspect, and it seems the US overlooked drone potential. Thus far it hasn't cost them.

A disparate drone swarm taking out power distribution stations (I don't know what they're officially called) all over the country would be devastating. Lessons from https://cybersquirrel1.com/.

(I think there's an 'imagination' and/or 'perspective' limitation when you're already the gorilla. You think like a gorilla, you're unable to think like a parasite)

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#12

Post by kragen »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

I found this one interesting: > “Vendors in the United States would laugh at us,” Hichwa said. American-made radios could cost $10,000 when he needed something for $30. The founders realized they’d have to build components themselves and seek suppliers outside the defense industry. Instead of using computer chips common in military equipment that cost hundreds of dollars, Neros used chips designed for parking meters…

It helps Lockheed Martin by preventing 21-year-olds from waltzing into the Pentagon and selling weapon systems to the DoD, allowing them to capture 300× more value than if they were subject to market competition.

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#13

Post by pas »

gonzo41 wrote: post #3
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

Counterpoint, the US has better other systems. Such as the 1st,2nd,3rd largest air forces in the world. Lots of Ukrainian commanders would happily trade FPV drones with grenades attached for mortar teams with lots of ammo and effective aircover. Modern militaries need drones, but the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play.

> the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play

... maybe. maybe not. the same army lost against stubborn Afghan shepherds. and before that against Vietnamese farmers.

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#14

Post by BLKNSLVR »

danielodievich wrote: post #4

I pay attention to what my former country is doing to Ukraine and it is really bad. America's warfighting with drones is very clearly unprepared to what's currently on the cutting edge. Ukraine's strike on strategic aviation with drones transported via trucks to the edge of airports can very easily happen here, given the size of the country, relative ease of access to air force bases and ubiquitous trucks everywhere.…

We don't want them hiding drones in their beards!

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#15

Post by kenjackson »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

I found this one interesting: > “Vendors in the United States would laugh at us,” Hichwa said. American-made radios could cost $10,000 when he needed something for $30. The founders realized they’d have to build components themselves and seek suppliers outside the defense industry. Instead of using computer chips common in military equipment that cost hundreds of dollars, Neros used chips designed for parking meters…

Elon did the same thing with SpaceX. If you don’t need five 9s (for whatever the certification is measuring) and can get by with three — you can often save 10x on cost.

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#16

Post by brandensilva »

defrost wrote: post #8
gonzo41 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, the US has better other systems. Such as the 1st,2nd,3rd largest air forces in the world. Lots of Ukrainian commanders would happily trade FPV drones with grenades attached for mortar teams with lots of ammo and effective aircover. Modern militaries need drones, but the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play.

A swarm of dirt cheap drones flying through the jet engines of a 10,000,000 dollar gorilla is an asymmetric answer.

Yeah I think people are underestimating drones here.

There is a reason this administration is fast tracking drone production and easing up on procurement. Some stuff doesn't need super sophisticated systems with traditional processes to get off the ground quickly with a cheap swarm approach.

It's probably the only thing I can agree with this administration on.

With that said America would be doing both drone swarms and advanced missile systems where they are most effective.

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#17

Post by alex43578 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #3
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

Counterpoint, the US has better other systems. Such as the 1st,2nd,3rd largest air forces in the world. Lots of Ukrainian commanders would happily trade FPV drones with grenades attached for mortar teams with lots of ammo and effective aircover. Modern militaries need drones, but the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play.

Agreed. The military will certainly need smaller drones to support squads or platoons, and to perform a variety of functions on the battlefield. But, I think drawing too many and too specific of lessons from Ukraine/Russia is bad.

It's tough to imagine a scenario where the US is so bogged down on a front line that a few miles of range on a Ukraine style FPV drone is going to be a critical weapon, especially if this scenario also requires that the US not be able to perform SEAD, destroy GPS jamming, or hit the target with JDAM/Hellfires/ETC.

Having a Mavic or Mini drone that can perform recon, a small drone capable of delivering a grenade sized payload to hit entrenched targets, a larger drone that can offer BDA and recon for artillery/MLRS, or the "Loyal Wingman" airforce drones are all reasonable ideas. But I just don't see the US standing up a dedicated FPV regiment - it doesn't align with the rest of the force's composition or likely missions.

Essentially it's this dichotomy: If we need to project force overseas, it's existing at the end of a massive chain of logistics, air/sea power and lift capability, and a lot of dollars. Whether the drone costs 500, 1000, or 10,000 doesn't really matter at that point because the soldier operating it and the logistics to get him there has already cost hundreds of thousands, and even a $50K drone-bomb is cheaper than the cost of the JDAM, F-35 flight time, pilot, and carrier that would otherwise be used to hit the target.

If instead we are fighting on the homefront, battling over tens of miles of heartland and building drones from parts scavenged from a bombed out Best Buy or imported from some imaginary, untouched part of the world (because what would the world's supply chain look like in this scenario??), all assumptions go out the window and the idea of mass-producing any armament at all is impossible.

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#18

Post by bethekidyouwant »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

Russia gets all their drone parts from China same as Ukraine not sure as assembling them is “making them”

Re: Neros has raised $121M to build military drones

#20

Post by cyberax »

gonzo41 wrote: post #3
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #2

This was particularly interesting in regards to the US military not being at the bleeding edge: The trip underscored what they already knew: America was vulnerable. Russia and China produced millions of drones annually, while the United States barely made 100,000. It almost feels as if the US need(s|ed) to be a bit more involved in the Ukraine war in order to keep their finger on the pulse of how conflicts are evolvi…

Counterpoint, the US has better other systems. Such as the 1st,2nd,3rd largest air forces in the world. Lots of Ukrainian commanders would happily trade FPV drones with grenades attached for mortar teams with lots of ammo and effective aircover. Modern militaries need drones, but the swarms that everyone gushes over aren't that effective when a 1000 pound gorilla like the US Army turns up to play.

Russia is dominating Ukraine in air forces by about 10-to-1. Yet Russia is using aviation only to lob guided bombs from far beyond the front line.

Apparently, air defense is good enough to make the aviation use too expensive too quickly. It's possible that the US can saturate the air defense by the sheer number of airplanes, accepting heavy casualties in return. But what if it fails?

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