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Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#11

This is weird. Mainframes are the dinosaurs of tech. Never would I think, 'let's add some AI' to a mainframe. It would be like adding opposable thumbs to dinosaurs. You are still solving the wrong problem, but it sure will be interesting watching the systems cope.

Looks like it's already been pointed out. We’re not applying AI to these systems — IBM is already pursuing those initiatives (https://research.ibm.com/blog/spyre-for-z).

Our focus is different: we’re using AI to understand these 40+ year-old black box systems and capture the knowledge of the SMEs who built and maintain them before they retire. There simply aren’t enough engineers left who can fully understand or maintain these systems, let alone modernize them.

The COBOL talent shortage has already been a challenge for many decades now, and it’s only becoming more severe.

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#12
post #10

Neat stuff. For more esoteric environments that could use this type of automated leg up, check out MUMPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS There's a bunch of mainly legacy hospital and government (primarily VA) systems that run on it. And where there's big government systems, there's big government dollars.

Thanks for sharing. It seems MUMPS is just as old and legacy as some of the COBOL systems!

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#13
I submitted this [0] story a few weeks ago, which led to some discussion and then being flagged since (I think) people were unsure of how verifiable the stats around COBOL were (the submitted page had more than a tinge of self-promotional language).

I was curious to ask you, as domain experts, if you could talk more to the "70% of the Fortune 500 still run on mainframes" stat you mentioned.

Where do these numbers come from? And also, does it mean that those 70% of Fortune 500s literally run/maintain 1k-1M+ LoC of COBOL? Or do these companies depend on a few downstream specialized providers (financial, aviation/logistics, etc.) which do rely on COBOL?

Like, is it COBOL all the way down, or is everything built in different ways, but basically on top of 3 companies, and those 3 companies are mostly doing COBOL?

Thanks!

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45644205

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#14
I’ve witnessed two legacy migration projects, both failed. One was a source translation to Java, this one failed because they didn’t have the expertise to manage production Java applications and pulled the plug. The other was a rewrite that went over budget and was cancelled.

> HyperDocs ingests COBOL, JCL, and PL/I codebases to generate documentation, architecture diagrams, and dependency graphs.

Lots of tools available that do this already without AI.

> The goal is to build digital “twins” of the experts on how they debug, architect, and maintain these systems in practice.

That will be a neat trick, will the output be more than sparsely populated wiki?

My experience is there’s not a lot of Will or money to follow these things through.

Edit to add there was a lot of work around business rule extraction, automatic documentation, and static analysis of mainframe systems in 90s leading up to Y2K, but it all fizzled out after that. You all should search the literature if you haven’t.

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#16
> Our other tool, HyperTwin, tackles the “tribal knowledge” problem. It learns directly from subject-matter experts, observing workflows, analyzing screen interactions, and conducting AI-driven interviews to capture how they debug and reason about their systems. The goal is to build digital “twins” of the experts on how they debug, architect, and maintain these systems in practice.

How do you consolidate this knowledge across disparate teams and organizational silos? How will you identify and reconcile subtle differences in terminology used across the organization?

Perhaps I misunderstood, but on your website you primarily identify technical implementors as SMEs. IME modernizing legacy data systems in high-stakes environments, the devil is more on the business side -- e.g. disparate teams using the same term to refer to different concepts (and having that reflected in code), or the exact stakeholders of reports or data systems being unknown and unknowable, and discerning between rules that are critical to a particular team or workflow that are opaque to you because e.g. you don't know who all relies on this data or are missing business context, or because the rule is not actually used anymore, or because the implementation of the rule itself is wrong.

Besides, both technical and non-technical stakeholders and SMEs lean heavily on heuristics to decision with the data they are looking at, but often struggle to explicitly articulate them. They don't think to mention certain conditions or filters because for them those are baked into the terminology, or it doesn't occur to them that the organization deals with broader data than what they interact with in their day-to-day.

And unfortunately in these settings, you don't get many chances to get it wrong -- trust is absolutely critical.

I am skeptical that what you will end up with at the end of the day will be a product, at least if your intent is to provide meaningful value to people who rely on these systems and solve the problems that keep them up at night. My feeling is that you will end up as primarily a consultancy, which makes sense given that the problem you are solving isn't primarily technical in nature, it just has technical components.

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#18

I submitted this [0] story a few weeks ago, which led to some discussion and then being flagged since (I think) people were unsure of how verifiable the stats around COBOL were (the submitted page had more than a tinge of self-promotional language). I was curious to ask you, as domain experts, if you could talk more to the "70% of the Fortune 500 still run on mainframes" stat you mentioned. Where do these numbers com…

Rule of thumb — if a bank already was there and dealing with things 30 years ago, it likely has some cobol left.

Generalizing — if the company had enough need for it 30 years ago, was big enough to but a mainframe and the thing they used it for barely changes — chances are it’s still there, if the company is still there.

Banks absolutely do have it in house, in a dedicated secure site with a fence and a moat

Re: Launch HN: Hypercubic (YC F25) – AI for COBOL and Mainframes

#19
I can tell they're using MkDocs for the HyperDocs static site gen based on the screenshot. I'm working on an open source solution to generating docs with AI for codebases and maintaining them for documentation drift. I wrote a bit about it initially here https://entropicdrift.com/blog/prodigy-docs-automation/ for anyone who is interested. I'm currently using mdbook instead of mkdocs, may add support for a mkdocs workflow to produce similar doc sites for just the cost of the LLM tokens. I didn't realize COBOL had such a large market for documentation with code as the source of truth. I'll have to try generating docs on an open source COBOL codebase to see how it fairs. Would be nice if hypercubic had actual live doc examples for what hyperdocs generates instead of just a screenshot, hard to judge how good or bad it is with just a single screenshot.
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