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LLM policy?

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11–20 of 145 posts

Re: LLM policy?

#11
post #5

Sidenote, but I love that in a GitHub issue discussing banning the use of LLMs, the GitHub interface asks if there's anything I'd like to fix with CoPilot.

That might be a contributing factor to this problem. the means to produce these bogus reports are integrated directly into so many dev tools nowadays.

Re: LLM policy?

#12

I think everything has a growing problem with LLM/AI generated content. Emails, blog posts, news articles, research papers, grant applications, business proposals, music, art, pretty much everything you can think of. There’s already more human produced content in the world than anyone could ever hope to consume, we don’t need more from AI.

In some ways I'm starting to enjoy this. Do you remember the 419 scams? 'Hi, I'm a Nigerian prince named Michael Jordan. Give me $50 so I can buy some chemicals to clean a bunch of money I secretly stowed away and I'll send you $5000.' People actually used to fall for that. Of course some people probably still would (and a lot more certainly gets blocked by spam blockers) but I think overall society grew less substantially less gullible over time.

But in general I think most people still remain excessively gullible and naive. Social media image crafting is one of the best examples of this. People create completely fake and idealized lives that naive individuals think are real. Now with AI enabling one to create compelling 'proof' of whatever lie you want, I think more people are becoming more suspicious of things that were, in fact, fake all along.

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Going back to ancient times many don't know that Socrates literally wrote nothing down. Basically everything we know of him is thanks to other people, his student Plato in particular, instead writing down what he said. The reason for this was not a lack of literacy - rather he felt that writing was harmful because words cannot defend themselves, and can be spun into misrepresentations or falsehoods. Basically - the argumentative fallacies that indeed make up most 'internet debates', for instance. Yet now few people are not aware of this issue, and quotes themselves are rarely taken at face value, unless they confirm ones biases. People became less naive as writing became ubiquitous, and I think this is probably a recurring theme in technologies that transform our abilities to transfer information in some format or another.

Re: LLM policy?

#13

I make a lot of drive-by contributions, and I use AI coding tools. I submitted my first PR that is a cross between those two recently. It's somewhere between "vibe-coded" and "vibe-engineered", where I definitely read the resulting code, had the agent make multiple revisions, and deployed the result on my own infrastructure before submitting a PR. In the PR I clearly stated that it was done by a coding agent. I can't…

"should I stop doing this thing that people are explicitly saying they don't want me to do or should I keep doing this thing that people are explicitly saying they don't want me to do???"

Re: LLM policy?

#14
Some years ago I read the Neal Stephenson book Anathem. SPOILERS: it has a version of the Internet called the Reticulum and one thing I remember is that it was filled with garbage. True information subtly changed multiple times until it was garbage. And there were agents to see through the garbage. I imagined this to be a neverending arms race.

Honestly, this is kind of where I see LLM generated content going where you'll have to pay for ChatGPT 9 to get information because all the other bots have vandalized all the primary sources.

What's really fascinating is you need GPUs for LLMs. And most LLM output is, well, garbage. What did you previously need GPUs for? Mining crypto and that is, at least in the case of Bitcoin, pointless work for the sake of pointless work ie garbage.

I can see a future in our lifetimes where a significant amount of our capital expenditure and energy consumption is used, quite simply, to produce garbage.

Re: LLM policy?

#15
In stuff I maintain I hardly get anything at all, whether using LLMs or not, so it does not affect me much. Furthermore, I exclusively use the API, so the UI will not try to make you use Copilot and those things either (that is not the reason I use the API, although it is a side effect).

I do not use Copilot, Claude, etc, although I partially agree with one of the comments there, that using LLM for minor auto-completion is probably OK, as long as you can actually see that the completion is not incorrect (although that should apply to other uses of auto-completion too, even if LLM is not used; but it is even more important to check more carefully if LLM is used). I think it would be better to not accept any LLM generated stuff otherwise (although the author might use LLM to assist before submitting it if desired (I don't, but it might help some programmers), e.g. in case the LLM finds problems with it, that they will then have to review themself to check if it is correct, before correcting and submitting it; i.e. don't trust the results of the LLM).

It links to https://github.com/lxc/incus/commit/54c3f05ee438b962e8ac4592... (add .patch on the end of the URL if it is not displayed), and I think the policy described there is good. (However, for my own projects, nobody else can directly modify it anyways; they will have to make their own copy and modify that instead, and then I will review it by myself and can include the changes (possibly with differences from how they did it) or not.)

Re: LLM policy?

#16

Curious to know if others are seeing a similar uptick in AI slop in issues or PRs for projects they are maintaining. If yes, how are you dealing with this? Some of the software that I maintain is critical to container ecosystem and I'm an extremely paranoid developer who starts investigating any github issue within a few minutes of it opening. Now, some of these AI slop github issues have a way to "gaslight" me into…

At first, I thought "wow, this project has been inactive for some time and this PR is quite large". The use of emojis should have tipped me off :)

https://github.com/photo/frontend/pull/1609

Re: LLM policy?

#18

I think everything has a growing problem with LLM/AI generated content. Emails, blog posts, news articles, research papers, grant applications, business proposals, music, art, pretty much everything you can think of. There’s already more human produced content in the world than anyone could ever hope to consume, we don’t need more from AI.

In some ways I'm starting to enjoy this. Do you remember the 419 scams? 'Hi, I'm a Nigerian prince named Michael Jordan. Give me $50 so I can buy some chemicals to clean a bunch of money I secretly stowed away and I'll send you $5000.' People actually used to fall for that. Of course some people probably still would (and a lot more certainly gets blocked by spam blockers) but I think overall society grew less substan…

> People actually used to fall for that. Of course some people probably still would (and a lot more certainly gets blocked by spam blockers) but I think overall society grew less substantially less gullible over time.

It is still a serious problem just want that to be abundantly clear. Several thousand people (in the US alone) fall for it every year. I used to browse 419 eater regularly and up until a few years ago (when I last really followed this issue) these scams were raking in billions a year. Could be more or less now but doubt it’s shifted a ton.

Re: LLM policy?

#19

I think everything has a growing problem with LLM/AI generated content. Emails, blog posts, news articles, research papers, grant applications, business proposals, music, art, pretty much everything you can think of. There’s already more human produced content in the world than anyone could ever hope to consume, we don’t need more from AI.

In some ways I'm starting to enjoy this. Do you remember the 419 scams? 'Hi, I'm a Nigerian prince named Michael Jordan. Give me $50 so I can buy some chemicals to clean a bunch of money I secretly stowed away and I'll send you $5000.' People actually used to fall for that. Of course some people probably still would (and a lot more certainly gets blocked by spam blockers) but I think overall society grew less substan…

The old quote of, 'You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time'.

There is the hope that in dumping so much slop so rapidly that it will break the bottom of the bucket. But there is the alternative that the bottom of the bucket will never break, it will just get bigger.

Re: LLM policy?

#20

I make a lot of drive-by contributions, and I use AI coding tools. I submitted my first PR that is a cross between those two recently. It's somewhere between "vibe-coded" and "vibe-engineered", where I definitely read the resulting code, had the agent make multiple revisions, and deployed the result on my own infrastructure before submitting a PR. In the PR I clearly stated that it was done by a coding agent. I can't…

I would potentially accept it (although you should not lie about it, and if someone says in their policy that they specifically do not want this then you should not send it), although for my own projects, there are reasons (having to do with the way the version control is set up) that I cannot accept direct contributions anyways, and I usually make my own changes to any contributions anyways (but anyone else can make their own copy with their own changes however they want to do, whether or not I accept it). Since it is honest, and that you had reviewed it by yourself before submitting it, and also tested it, and that I would review it again anyways as well, it would be acceptable, although I would still much more prefer to receive contributions that do not use LLM, still the way you do it is much better than the other stuff some by LLM which does not meet the threshold of being acceptable.
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