Live data from Hacker News

Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

fastcompany.com

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#11
post #8

New York real estate is a system. You have to learn the system to hack it. A lot of real estate start ups are trying to "Avoid the Broker." The system isn't as broken as we may think. Landlords enjoy minimal vacancy. Brokers get paid generously. Tenants find apartments. Complaining about a 15% broker fee is like complaining about the gas for your Lamborghini.

Thats easy to say, once you learned to hack the system.

But many brokers do take money to simply show you the apartment and nothing else.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#12
post #8

New York real estate is a system. You have to learn the system to hack it. A lot of real estate start ups are trying to "Avoid the Broker." The system isn't as broken as we may think. Landlords enjoy minimal vacancy. Brokers get paid generously. Tenants find apartments. Complaining about a 15% broker fee is like complaining about the gas for your Lamborghini.

Thats easy to say, once you learned to hack the system. But many brokers do take money to simply show you the apartment and nothing else.

They are the "1-click" brokers. The experience doesn't mean that they aren't a part of a complex system. We usually applaud efficient systems don't we?

15% is justified because people pay it.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#13

To me, broker fees in NYC seem so crazy. Can someone justify them? Is opening up a few doors really worth 3k?

My mother is a real estate agent and worked in both NY (westchester county) and NC (raleigh) and I grew up helping my mother with myriad activities necessary to list and sell a house

You'd be surprised how much work is required to keep the real estate market liquid. I'd say half the work is necessary, some automatable, some not so much. However, a lot of the work doesn't even have much to do with work necessary everytime a home goes on the market, but rework that is repeated every time a listing goes on the market. A listing that was on the market last year that goes on the market again this year needs all the same work done to get it sold.

Here's just a sampling of the types of things that need to be done on every sale:

-- finding inspectors and getting inspections done

-- getting radon tests done (difficult to schedule since house needs to be vacated if I recall correctly

-- showings (how to show a house, how to talk about it. how to sell a lifestyle, especially in a home with no furnishings)

-- fixing things, which is often dependent on contract negotiation. Sometimes things that need improvement will be deducted from the price, other times fixing them will be a requirement to close the deal.

-- home staging. for homes with no furnishings, companies exist to stage the home, especially for open-houses.

-- disclosures (near an airport? did someone die in the house? carcinogenic chemicals on site before construction?)

-- proper photographing, which is hard for most people because photographing homes that will generate interest isn't as trivial as you may think. One of the biggest issues with photographing was lighting both inside and out. Most agents don't carry lighting necessary to photograph homes. Some homes have built in lighting, some have lamps. Those that use lamps may not have any because furniture has been removed. Most agents aren't technically competent enough to handle a camera more complex than a simple point and shoot. Outside lighting for homes requires planning to make sure the weather was nice and that at least the front of the house was lit, which itself depended on which direction the house faced (north, south, east, west). Getting the photos from the camera to MLS and creating brochures with them is complex for many people.

-- MLS management

-- Searching of the myriad criteria that people evaluate a house on (schools, commute, etc.) Everyone has different lifestyles and needs. The criteria for one client will differ dramatically from the criteria for another client.

-- centralized showing

-- lock box management so other listing agents can show a house.

-- scheduling

-- Knowing whether a house is a good deal or not. Your agent is essentially your negotiator. A good agent will not only find you a home that fits your lifestyle, but they will help you negotiate with the seller/buyer on your behalf. This is probably where the fees are most valuable.

-- Negotiating with a bank. You have no idea how many deals these days get blocked by a bank, especially if the home is underwater.

-- floorplans (bonus points if any startup makes it easy to mash up floorplans to room photos, the same way that people mash up photos with latlng data and maps).

-- ability to simulate your current belongings in the new home? Do you have too much stuff? Not enough stuff? What fits? What doesn't?

-- Architectural vocabulary enlightenment. What's the difference between a victorian and an edwardian? What are dorian columns?

-- Energy efficiency of a house? What are the bills and utilities the previous tenant paid?

-- Hooking up utilities in a new place. Can it be streamlined?

-- etc. etc. etc.

This is all just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think there is a one size fits all solution that can automate all of the above, but there is definitely room for a few dozen startups and that you could essentially create an entire VC fund with real estate as your thesis. TBH, I think that is the only way "real estate" will ever be solved. There are way too many moving parts to have everything solved by one company. APIs are necessary for solving the problems above.

Finally, NYC and SF are very very very weird markets by real estate standards. Most markets are fairly balanced, but both NYC and SF are heavily skewed in favored of sellers. This makes them very unusual and I can't imagine a solution that works for those two markets working in other markets.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#14

To me, broker fees in NYC seem so crazy. Can someone justify them? Is opening up a few doors really worth 3k?

Its horrible finding an apartment in NYC. Especially if you're a working professional. Most people don't have cars, and apartments aren't helpfully near each other, so you're spending a lot of time hopping on trains and walking streets. If its the weekend, you're spending a whole day just to see a few places if you need to wait for trains. As you can imagine, any place where giving the super a six pack gets you a set of master keys, people aren't very reliable. Half the time you show up and the apartment is gone, the listing is wrong, or the place is a heap. If you work during the week, you're either running around at night looking for apartments, or by the time you get to the weekend, all your research is out of date. This is why brokers exist in NYC.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought 3 years ago... I think the root of the problem is there are too many available apartments but most of them are a waste of your time to view. A great broker previews every listing and only shows the best deals. Similarly for the landlord, most renters who come see the apartment will not take it, so having brokers do the showings saves the landlord a lot of time and effort.

> A great broker previews every listing and only shows the best deals. But that's exactly the problem -- the best deals get taken on the spot. Luck, not a good broker, makes you the first one in. And in the end, finding a good apartment, and finding a good broker (with that kind of access) are equivalent problems. In NYC last year it took me almost 3 months to find a decent apartment. I found the broker on Craiglist…

All of the brokers I ever talked to in NYC were "in" with management, I was always the "first" to see an apartment that "wasn't listed" and it inevitably wasn't the one the broker put up on Craigslist with the awesome pictures because it just got taken "yesterday."

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#16

To me, broker fees in NYC seem so crazy. Can someone justify them? Is opening up a few doors really worth 3k?

My mother is a real estate agent and worked in both NY (westchester county) and NC (raleigh) and I grew up helping my mother with myriad activities necessary to list and sell a house You'd be surprised how much work is required to keep the real estate market liquid. I'd say half the work is necessary, some automatable, some not so much. However, a lot of the work doesn't even have much to do with work necessary every…

That's an outstanding list of problems that are all amazing start up ideas. This is where real estate can really be disrupted.

These guys, http://bermanvc.com/ are really smart. They invest in real estate related technologies and even invested in YC alum 42floors.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#17
No. The best way to disrupt an industry is to do something unrelated - something crazy and something different. You'll never break the mould and explode by copying incumbent industries line of thought.

For example the real estate industry has been upset most in New Zealand by trademe, a company started by someone who wanted an easier way to buy a used toaster. The industry here is still scrambling to catch up, instead of competing with a startup trying to emulate their business model.

By doing what the article suggests, you'll be above mediocre at best. Think different (tm).

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great broker previews every listing and only shows the best deals. But that's exactly the problem -- the best deals get taken on the spot. Luck, not a good broker, makes you the first one in. And in the end, finding a good apartment, and finding a good broker (with that kind of access) are equivalent problems. In NYC last year it took me almost 3 months to find a decent apartment. I found the broker on Craiglist…

All of the brokers I ever talked to in NYC were "in" with management, I was always the "first" to see an apartment that "wasn't listed" and it inevitably wasn't the one the broker put up on Craigslist with the awesome pictures because it just got taken "yesterday."

I'm currently living in an apartment that never went on the market, because my roommate (a broker) knew the management company and he gave us a great deal. Brokers who frequent buildings get to know which apartments are coming on the market before they are listed because the supers tell them.

Re: Want To Disrupt An Industry? Try Actually Working In It First

#20
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought 3 years ago... I think the root of the problem is there are too many available apartments but most of them are a waste of your time to view. A great broker previews every listing and only shows the best deals. Similarly for the landlord, most renters who come see the apartment will not take it, so having brokers do the showings saves the landlord a lot of time and effort.

> A great broker previews every listing and only shows the best deals. But that's exactly the problem -- the best deals get taken on the spot. Luck, not a good broker, makes you the first one in. And in the end, finding a good apartment, and finding a good broker (with that kind of access) are equivalent problems. In NYC last year it took me almost 3 months to find a decent apartment. I found the broker on Craiglist…

But that's exactly the problem -- the best deals get taken on the spot.

Reminds me of:

http://raganwald.posterous.com/canadian-women-are-waiting-fo...

And then that kind of led me to remember this:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html

Some of the parallels are striking.

Post reply on HN