After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum • Hacker News Board

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#11

Post by comrade1234 » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 1:42 PM UTC

something that confuses me a bit...

I was in Egypt about two weeks before the arab spring revolution and not too long after terrorists shot a bunch of tourists in the Luxor area. There were very few tourists because of the terrorist attack, and so in Luxor my wife and I had a driver and a egyptoligist tour guide that normally works with large tour groups. They drove us around (with a handgun under the driver's seat and a rifle in the trunk that I pretended not to see) to different sites for a few days and the guide gave excellent academic-like guiding.

Later we were in Cairo and it felt like I had their main museum completely to myself. There were only a few tourists and they were outnumbered by the docents/security. We saw the tutankhamen exhibit by ourselves.

What I'm confused about is that I read that during the spring revolution the tutankhamen exhibit was looted, and yet it still goes on tour. It was here in Switzerland a couple of years ago. Are they showing copies of the original exhibits? Or I suppose not everything was on exhibit at once and so a subset was looted? I never got a good explanation to this.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#12

Post by lm28469 » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 1:53 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #4

debian3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m conflicted. I understand the concept that stolen goods should be returned and it’s the right thing to do, but at the same time it was centuries ago and the preservation was done by them. I have seen well preserved exposition in that museum and then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

You can have negative views of colonization and also accept the fact that most artifacts were lost because they were looted before Europeans even arrived.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#13

Post by throw47474848 » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 1:53 PM UTC

gef wrote: post #2

I wonder if the British Museum will do the right thing and return previously stolen artefacts?

[flagged]

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#14

Post by lclc » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 1:54 PM UTC

comrade1234 wrote: post #11

something that confuses me a bit... I was in Egypt about two weeks before the arab spring revolution and not too long after terrorists shot a bunch of tourists in the Luxor area. There were very few tourists because of the terrorist attack, and so in Luxor my wife and I had a driver and a egyptoligist tour guide that normally works with large tour groups. They drove us around (with a handgun under the driver's seat a…

The tour shows copies.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#15

Post by akudha » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 1:56 PM UTC

u_sama wrote: post #7

jeromegv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

> Syria 2011 > Lebanon 1970s > Algeria 1990s > Afghanistan 1990s A few simple examples of nations who have went through rather devastating wars and civil wars including Islamists who's main ideology is that anything pre-Islamic is to be destroyed as it might lead to heresy, and who go out of their way to destroy historical places and artifacts. And if not war, then the fact that the cultures of those areas traditiona…

Can't this be on a case by case basis? After all, the British stole from so many places in the world - what if they returned stolen items to countries (India for example) that are interested and capable of safeguarding artifacts and didn't return to those countries where they might get destroyed (Afghanistan etc)?

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#16

Post by Jedd » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #4

debian3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m conflicted. I understand the concept that stolen goods should be returned and it’s the right thing to do, but at the same time it was centuries ago and the preservation was done by them. I have seen well preserved exposition in that museum and then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

> We never fail to find someone to defend colonization!

I think you are misrepresenting GP & parent's comments.

Yes, absolutely, totally, Brits have a well-deserved reputation of colonisation.

But as a hypothetical conundrum, who would you return the relics from a long expired society to -- the current (arguably quite distinct, religiously & culturally) administrations of those lands?

What moral right is exercised (or exercisable) of relics of, say, Atenism, crafted 3 to 4 thousand years ago -- locals with an orthogonal religion & culture, or foreigners with an orthogonal religion and culture?

(Personally I instinctively lean towards your take, albeit a little less abruptly - but I think it's all quite complicated - partly with the bizarre 'cultural birthright' thing, partly curator cred, less so the accessibility claims.)

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#17

Post by zdragnar » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 2:16 PM UTC

throw47474848 wrote: post #13

gef wrote: post #2

I wonder if the British Museum will do the right thing and return previously stolen artefacts?

[flagged]

To be honest, this is what has always confused me about the land acknowledgements that are popular at the opening of events in various circles... it's not like any of the people doing this have an intention of giving the land back and going back to Europe.

Instead of whatever they're trying to do, it sounds more like they're rubbing it in the faces of the descendants.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#18

Post by lentil_soup » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 2:18 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #16

jeromegv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

> We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! I think you are misrepresenting GP & parent's comments. Yes, absolutely, totally, Brits have a well-deserved reputation of colonisation. But as a hypothetical conundrum, who would you return the relics from a long expired society to -- the current (arguably quite distinct, religiously & culturally) administrations of those lands? What moral right is exercised (o…

you could, even though I disagree, use that argument for some artifacts, but surely not for the massive collection of things from Greece and Egypt. Those are pretty obvious you can return to the modern countries that sit on those lands.

Event if culture and religion has changed those artifacts are part of those peoples heritage, if it weren't then why would the UK care about Stonehenge or Hadrian's Wall? Or Italians about the Coliseum?

Just a single anecdotal point but I'm from Latin America and while there's little indigenous blood in me I would still consider indigenous culture and artifacts as part of my culture and that's at the extreme end of colonisation as natives were pretty much wiped out.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#19

Post by pdabbadabba » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 2:33 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #4

debian3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m conflicted. I understand the concept that stolen goods should be returned and it’s the right thing to do, but at the same time it was centuries ago and the preservation was done by them. I have seen well preserved exposition in that museum and then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

You're using the word "stolen" here with a lot of conviction but, imho, not a lot of rigor. In what sense did people "own" the artifacts that the British removed from Egypt? Who owned them? If nobody owned them, how were they "stolen"? That's the weak version of the problem.

The stronger version: how is it the case that Egypt, or Egyptians, today "own" something that has been in the British museum far longer than any of them have been alive? Even if the artifacts were wrongfully taken in the first instance, does that automatically mean that the only right thing to do is to return them, even after centuries? Are the myriad other interests that have accumulated in the interim simply not matter? How long domes something have to remain in Britain for it to meaningfully become part of British heritage as well as Egyptian? Should we also be working to return artifacts looted by the ancient Egyptians to their own ancestral homes, even though the looting occurred thousands of years ago when they were the dominant power? Perhaps they should give back everything south of the First Cataract to the Nubians. (Hopefully it's clear that this is a reductio not a policy proposal!)

That's not to say I think it's categorically acceptable for powerful nations to take historical artifacts. But I don't think this has really anything to do with "stealing" in the usual sense. if anything, that rhetoric just obscures the issues here that might truly be worth thinking about.

Re: After delays, Egypt set for lavish opening of grand museum

#20

Post by wbl » Fri, Oct 31, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

pdabbadabba wrote: post #19

jeromegv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never fail to find someone to defend colonization! > then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era. You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen. Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other ca…

You're using the word "stolen" here with a lot of conviction but, imho, not a lot of rigor. In what sense did people "own" the artifacts that the British removed from Egypt? Who owned them? If nobody owned them, how were they "stolen"? That's the weak version of the problem. The stronger version: how is it the case that Egypt, or Egyptians, today "own" something that has been in the British museum far longer than any…

The Egyptian peasant lives today much the same as his ancestors did. It's a remarkable degree of continuity! And some works were removed contrary to law quite recently like the head of Nefertiti.