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RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

tedium.co

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#11
"Using Deep Learning to Eavesdrop on HDMI from its Unintended Electromagnetic Emanations" (2024), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41116682

"Tempest-LoRa: Cross-Technology Covert Communication via HDMI RF Emissions", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44483262

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#12

Ahh, alternative futures... If the FCC hadn't been so strict I think there's a good chance we'd be using computers with a lineage going back to Atari versus IBM today. Commodore ate Atari's lunch with the C64 and pricing, but Atari could have launched the 400/800 at lower price points with more lax emission standards. They would have had lower peripheral price points, too, since the SIO bus and "smart peripheral" des…

> If the FCC hadn't been so strict I think there's a good chance we'd be using computers with a lineage going back to Atari versus IBM today.

And/or many of the other manufacturers of that era. I have encountered execs from that era that still believe the whole thing was some sort of shrouded protectionism.

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#13

Ahh, alternative futures... If the FCC hadn't been so strict I think there's a good chance we'd be using computers with a lineage going back to Atari versus IBM today. Commodore ate Atari's lunch with the C64 and pricing, but Atari could have launched the 400/800 at lower price points with more lax emission standards. They would have had lower peripheral price points, too, since the SIO bus and "smart peripheral" des…

I happened to buy an Atari 800 at the peak of this and was amazed at the metal castings that surrounded everything. That little 6502 could survive small arms fire! That shielding was far beyond anything else at the time.

And you make a good point about the SIO bus - this was when every other machine had unshielded ribbon cables everywhere. Their devotion to daisy chained serial really crippled them in terms of speed, and when USB finally arrived, I initially scorned it due to the prejudice formed by my experience with the Atari peripherals! It turns out they were on the right track all along!

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#14
post #2

I wish the FCC would go back to doing their job re: radio interference and unintentional emissions. The entire concept of a computer case 'window' is about equally as anti-social and rude as littering in a public park. But it's so pervasive and socially accepted when I bring it up the only responses I receive are all quite hostile. Even worse are the computer builds that don't have any metal case at all. They're broa…

> computer builds that don't have any metal case at all

Would be nice to have more metal cases for SBCs, like the one on R4S, https://www.androidpimp.com/embedded/nanopi-r4s-review

KKSB makes metal cases for some SBCs, https://kksb-cases.com

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#15
Anecdotes from the age.

When I would fire up my KIM-1, the TV would turn to snow.

There was a toy called the "Big Trak", a programmable ATV toy. If you ran that underneath the desk with a TRS-80 on it, it would crash.

The TRS-80 Model 1 was notorious for this, as you connected the computer to the expansion interface with a bare, 40(? ish?) pin ribbon connector. It was a beautiful broadcast antenna for computer signals.

The FCC was an impetus for the Model 3.

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#16
post #7

Back in the mid-century, we used to put an AM radio anywhere on the same desk next to the TRS-80 and the revealed cacophany was endlessly fascinating. As I recall, radio tuning was unnecessary.

We used to put them next to our TI-58/59 calculators. You could use the radio for sound effects in games.

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#17
post #2

I wish the FCC would go back to doing their job re: radio interference and unintentional emissions. The entire concept of a computer case 'window' is about equally as anti-social and rude as littering in a public park. But it's so pervasive and socially accepted when I bring it up the only responses I receive are all quite hostile. Even worse are the computer builds that don't have any metal case at all. They're broa…

> computer builds that don't have any metal case at all Would be nice to have more metal cases for SBCs, like the one on R4S, https://www.androidpimp.com/embedded/nanopi-r4s-review KKSB makes metal cases for some SBCs, https://kksb-cases.com

I run a handful of odroid sbcs constantly with 3x rtl-sdr usb radio receivers each. For their cases I used the cardboard box they shipped in covered in overlapping 2" conductive-glue backed copper tape. And lots of type/mix 63 ferrites on the cords.

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#18
post #2

I wish the FCC would go back to doing their job re: radio interference and unintentional emissions. The entire concept of a computer case 'window' is about equally as anti-social and rude as littering in a public park. But it's so pervasive and socially accepted when I bring it up the only responses I receive are all quite hostile. Even worse are the computer builds that don't have any metal case at all. They're broa…

Metallized windows would be nice at least

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#19
The regulatory landscape here is pretty funny. In all likelihood, the worst RFI offenders in your home are LED lights, followed by major appliances. Both of these are regulated less than something like a computer mouse. For lightbulbs, I think the manufacturers just self-certify.

I guess there are two ways to look at it. Either the regulation was wildly successful, so the problems persist only in the less-regulated spaces. Or we spend a lot of effort chasing the wrong problem.

Re: RF Shielding History: When the FCC Cracked Down on Computers

#20

The regulatory landscape here is pretty funny. In all likelihood, the worst RFI offenders in your home are LED lights, followed by major appliances. Both of these are regulated less than something like a computer mouse. For lightbulbs, I think the manufacturers just self-certify. I guess there are two ways to look at it. Either the regulation was wildly successful, so the problems persist only in the less-regulated s…

If I turn my kettle or microwave on in my kitchen it will kill any bleutooth or wifi signal. My microwave is getting on for 15 years old, maybe newer ones are better, but the kettle was bought last year.
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