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Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

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Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#11

Post by uvdiv »

halbermensch wrote: post #10
uvdiv wrote: post #2

The article suggests he was killed over a land dispute. Which, really, exemplifies the point of the Canadian-governed cities: mediating property disputes in first-world legal systems, not anarchic violence.

First-class Canadian-run legal systems, oh my! Sounds so wonderfully egalitarian and efficient, you almost want to move there... except that things aren't always what they seem: The problem is there are no clean slates. Honduras does not have untouched expanses of territory awaiting homesteaders to lay claim. Trujillo, the site most often mentioned for the first Charter City, has long belonged to afro-indigenous Gari…

Your example only reiterates my point, that violent gangs sieze property by force, and that the failed Honduran government is incapable or unwilling to defend its citizens and their property rights.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#12

Post by rayiner »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #9
p_monk wrote: post #3

The last time the Friedmanites tried to impose neoliberal economic doctrine in Latin America it resulted in wide-scale repression and murder [1]. It is tragic, yet not surprising, that it's happening again. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#The_Disappeared_held_...

What do "Friedmanites" have to do with military dictatorship? Oh, right: nothing. On the other hand, communists are DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths of millions. Millions. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

No True Scottsman, etc.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#13

Post by p_monk »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #9
p_monk wrote: post #3

The last time the Friedmanites tried to impose neoliberal economic doctrine in Latin America it resulted in wide-scale repression and murder [1]. It is tragic, yet not surprising, that it's happening again. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#The_Disappeared_held_...

What do "Friedmanites" have to do with military dictatorship? Oh, right: nothing. On the other hand, communists are DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths of millions. Millions. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

What do they have to do with military dictatorship? They filled several important roles in Pinochet's government in Chile and Videla's government in Argentina. There are more examples in Latin America, but these were the most horrific.

My comment was unrelated to communism -- I don't need to be convinced that communism is bad.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#14

Post by Turing_Machine »

p_monk wrote: post #13
Turing_Machine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do "Friedmanites" have to do with military dictatorship? Oh, right: nothing. On the other hand, communists are DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths of millions. Millions. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

What do they have to do with military dictatorship? They filled several important roles in Pinochet's government in Chile and Videla's government in Argentina. There are more examples in Latin America, but these were the most horrific. My comment was unrelated to communism -- I don't need to be convinced that communism is bad.

"They filled several important roles in Pinochet's government in Chile and Videla's government in Argentina."

That's reasoning on the converse. I suspect that left-handed people "filled several important roles" as well. That doesn't make left-handed people responsible.

If you have any evidence that Milton Friedman was in favor of military dictatorship (or, indeed, government coercion of any kind), I'd like to hear it.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#15

Post by halbermensch »

uvdiv wrote: post #11
halbermensch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First-class Canadian-run legal systems, oh my! Sounds so wonderfully egalitarian and efficient, you almost want to move there... except that things aren't always what they seem: The problem is there are no clean slates. Honduras does not have untouched expanses of territory awaiting homesteaders to lay claim. Trujillo, the site most often mentioned for the first Charter City, has long belonged to afro-indigenous Gari…

Your example only reiterates my point, that violent gangs sieze property by force, and that the failed Honduran government is incapable or unwilling to defend its citizens and their property rights.

I think the basic point you've failed to notice is that, not-so-paradoxically, it's the "Free Cities" entrepreneurs who are seeking to benefit from, i.e. are openly acting in direct collusion with, these very same forced expropriations.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#16

Post by halbermensch »

jamesbritt wrote: post #5

Why is the word "Libertarian" in the posted title? I can't find it in title of the article or in the article itself.

Because the whole "Free Cities" thing is part of the old Libertarian wet dream of establishing instant Utopias on whatever scrap of "unclaimed" land they salvage from somewhere (some rock or coral reef somewhere... or in this case, lands belonging to an indigenous group seen as too weak to defend itself). Where the world will finally see how efficient and truly egalitarian we can all live once the bane of Coercion has been abolished once and for all. And the sun will never stop shining, etc. You know, John Galt and his valley in Colorado, etc.

In any case, the current generation's de-facto "John Galt" (Peter Thiel) is one of the key backers of the Honduran project, so (despite the abuse of posting guidelinbes) that makes it very much a Libertarian topic.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#17

Post by halbermensch »

wissler wrote: post #6
p_monk wrote: post #3

The last time the Friedmanites tried to impose neoliberal economic doctrine in Latin America it resulted in wide-scale repression and murder [1]. It is tragic, yet not surprising, that it's happening again. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#The_Disappeared_held_...

Can you please post a reference?

Basic Latin American history, guys. Do a bit of reading.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#18

Post by jbelich »

halbermensch wrote: post #16
jamesbritt wrote: post #5

Why is the word "Libertarian" in the posted title? I can't find it in title of the article or in the article itself.

Because the whole "Free Cities" thing is part of the old Libertarian wet dream of establishing instant Utopias on whatever scrap of "unclaimed" land they salvage from somewhere (some rock or coral reef somewhere... or in this case, lands belonging to an indigenous group seen as too weak to defend itself). Where the world will finally see how efficient and truly egalitarian we can all live once the bane of Coercion ha…

Except that the Free City concept wasn't dreamed up in a libertarian vacuum. It's worked over and over again, building wealth, growth, and sustaining economies for centuries.

Having a guy wacked b/c he's a nimby definitely misses the point though...

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#19

Post by halbermensch »

jbelich wrote: post #18
halbermensch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the whole "Free Cities" thing is part of the old Libertarian wet dream of establishing instant Utopias on whatever scrap of "unclaimed" land they salvage from somewhere (some rock or coral reef somewhere... or in this case, lands belonging to an indigenous group seen as too weak to defend itself). Where the world will finally see how efficient and truly egalitarian we can all live once the bane of Coercion ha…

Except that the Free City concept wasn't dreamed up in a libertarian vacuum. It's worked over and over again, building wealth, growth, and sustaining economies for centuries. Having a guy wacked b/c he's a nimby definitely misses the point though...

Umm, the people he represents weren't protesting that "Free Cities" are being built near their property (their "backyard") -- rather, that outsiders are proposing to build them on their property.

Re: Lawyer Fighting Against Libertarian Cities Project In Honduras Assassinated

#20

Post by halbermensch »

jbelich wrote: post #18
halbermensch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the whole "Free Cities" thing is part of the old Libertarian wet dream of establishing instant Utopias on whatever scrap of "unclaimed" land they salvage from somewhere (some rock or coral reef somewhere... or in this case, lands belonging to an indigenous group seen as too weak to defend itself). Where the world will finally see how efficient and truly egalitarian we can all live once the bane of Coercion ha…

Except that the Free City concept wasn't dreamed up in a libertarian vacuum. It's worked over and over again, building wealth, growth, and sustaining economies for centuries. Having a guy wacked b/c he's a nimby definitely misses the point though...

Except that the Free City concept wasn't dreamed up in a libertarian vacuum.

Except the way Thiel & Co mean it, it was. There's no way you can compare their schemes with historical examples with HK, Trieste, the Hanseatic League etc (if that's what you're thinking).

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