Live data from Hacker News

You did no fact checking, and I must scream

shkspr.mobi

11–20 of 204 posts

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#11

Just yesterday, there was a post that made me angry in the same vein: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45609942 Not only was the article slop, but the author kept responding to comments/criticisms with MORE slop. I must scream.

Wow that is pretty bad. The comments in particular don't really make sense and are also dripping with AI mannerisms. Gross.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#12

The average journalist has to churn enough stories that they don't have time to be looking up anything. There must be a corollary somewhere about how much you should read the average newspaper.

A decent newspaper can afford this because it also has a fact checker, a copyeditor, a line editor, and an expectation that a journalist will be fired[1] if they systematically fuck up the substance of their writing. It’s difficult to find a decent newspaper.

[1] Or otherwise not employed—newspapers perfected not treating their core workforce as employees decades before everyone else.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#13

The average journalist has to churn enough stories that they don't have time to be looking up anything. There must be a corollary somewhere about how much you should read the average newspaper.

Gell-Mann Amnesia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#14
post #7

Well fact checking will just slow us down. And it is not like audience will do it themselves. Or even have options... Still. In many case I think there should be moments where people just stop for moment and do most basic sanity checks.

> In many case I think there should be moments where people just stop for moment and do most basic sanity checks.

Yes!

And two of the most common indicators of that are if you read something that either makes you thrilled or furious.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#15
post #10

> I hope I've demonstrated that it takes almost no effort to perform a basic fact check. It isn't a professional skill. For myself a quick fact check like this is also low effort. Unlike the author, I recognize this is a professional skill. We are fortunate enough to be incredibly proficient in a large set of skills. Language, literacy, reading quickly, tech skills, research, touch-typing, critical thinking, searchin…

On other hand if you are able to compile "facts" to an article. You should as well be able to verify them from second source. And trivially fast in modern world. I mean if you synthesis information from one or more sources. Being able to verify them from one more source should not be huge leap.

Then again, maybe it is just AI generated. Which really makes future look lot worse.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#16
post #10

> I hope I've demonstrated that it takes almost no effort to perform a basic fact check. It isn't a professional skill. For myself a quick fact check like this is also low effort. Unlike the author, I recognize this is a professional skill. We are fortunate enough to be incredibly proficient in a large set of skills. Language, literacy, reading quickly, tech skills, research, touch-typing, critical thinking, searchin…

Most people don't, sure. But anyone who calls themselves a journalist or has gone to j-school sure as hell better. That's literally the point. That's what journalism school teaches, or at least should; Not how to repost crap from other crap. It's simply not an excuse for an organization like the bbc.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#17
post #10

> I hope I've demonstrated that it takes almost no effort to perform a basic fact check. It isn't a professional skill. For myself a quick fact check like this is also low effort. Unlike the author, I recognize this is a professional skill. We are fortunate enough to be incredibly proficient in a large set of skills. Language, literacy, reading quickly, tech skills, research, touch-typing, critical thinking, searchin…

The article is addressed to journalists, who have not only the necessary skills but also a professional obligation to provide truthful information

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#18
I'm confused why we are fact checking viral slop. First, you would have to confirm she wrote it. When and where was it published. If you can't confirm that, you shouldn't post it. Stop, go no further.

What if the information was plausible, or even accurate. If she didn't write it, what value is it?

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#19
post #10

> I hope I've demonstrated that it takes almost no effort to perform a basic fact check. It isn't a professional skill. For myself a quick fact check like this is also low effort. Unlike the author, I recognize this is a professional skill. We are fortunate enough to be incredibly proficient in a large set of skills. Language, literacy, reading quickly, tech skills, research, touch-typing, critical thinking, searchin…

I got the impression the "you" in the title refers to journalists, who should have all of the skills you list. Confusing, as he then refers to the reader as "you" at the end, but I'm pretty sure he's berating the professionals and encouraging everyone else to try and do the job they are not.

I agree though, that the general population can't reasonably be expected to do a better job of it than the professionals, so I can't imagine that exhortation having much effect.

Re: You did no fact checking, and I must scream

#20
The BBC pulled that article/episode - which is the main difference between different media spheres today.

We are habituated to think of information as the fundament of the internet. When in reality the foundation is simply content.

High quality information is content which is verified, or has a chain of sources. This is expensive to produce.

The information consumer primarily consumes emotionally salient content. Maybe 20% of the time they are willing to exert themselves to consume cognitively demanding content.

With the end of classifieds, the end of ad revenue, the dominance of platforms - news is a dumb ass business to expect to survive. They make expensive goods and sell it for cheap.

That’s why theres entire media spheres which are incredibly effective today - because they don’t spend the money to verify, they spend the money to platform narratives that take off.

The economics of the fourth estate dont make sense, and this needs an answer.

We depend on informed voters to have functioning democracies.

Post reply on HN