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A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

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Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#11

Post by iamnothere »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #9
iamnothere wrote: post #5

Another day, another important international agreement violated. I appreciate what SpaceX has done for global communications, but do not under any circumstances flagrantly violate ITU guidelines. This undermines critical agreements that allow us to (for instance) use the ISM and amateur bands without pervasive jamming. The ITU is not a political football like the rest of the UN, it’s a highly technical, competent org…

> I appreciate what SpaceX has done for global communications, but do not under any circumstances flagrantly violate ITU guidelines. These are Starshields, not Starlinks. These are not operated by SpaceX. In the same way Boeing isn't spying on comms by building / launching an NRO satellite.

Good point, in that case I suppose I should direct my criticism at the NRO. They more than anyone should understand the importance of ITU treaties, as having clear standards for the RF bands probably makes their job easier in many ways.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#12

Post by BobbyTables2 »

Weeenion wrote: post #10

I'm curious if you could destroy a SpaceX Satelite with a basic laser pointers. Easily enough for normal state actors and some university or engineering lab. You need only to track it and shoot your laser up there (its only 500km) and if it can't dissipate the energy fast enough, it would overheat.

Try destroying a can of soda with a laser pointer first…

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#13

Post by ajross »

I'm all for a good spy story, but this seems like a big shrug to me. Interference-sensitive satellite communication is done with directional dishes, who cares what some other satellite is transmitting? That's the kind of nonsense you already engineered around.

And of course all communication managed by modern ICs is done with some kind of spread spectrum protocol with the property that "interference" is a routine/expected thing that doesn't degrade service. You can't break a modern satellite with an accidental transmission, you have to deliberately "jam" it.

Is the ITU rule in question being violated? Probably. Is that actually impactful to real systems? Almost certainly not. Old rules are old. Our goal should be to work together to update them for the benefit of all (to be sure, not to violate them with impunity!), and not to scream about them as part of a proxy war about the CEO's political and conspiracy proclivities.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#14

Post by Zigurd »

ACCount37 wrote: post #4

This reeks of SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and we know Starshield sats carry custom sensor payloads that normal Starlinks don't have.

I've been a pretty harsh critic of Starlink. I don't think it's going to compete well against terrestrial wireless links, specifically 5G FWA. But if they can actually do something interesting with distributed SAR in a large constellation, that's one of those national security breakthroughs that's worth every penny.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#15

Post by iamnothere »

ajross wrote: post #13

I'm all for a good spy story, but this seems like a big shrug to me. Interference-sensitive satellite communication is done with directional dishes, who cares what some other satellite is transmitting? That's the kind of nonsense you already engineered around. And of course all communication managed by modern ICs is done with some kind of spread spectrum protocol with the property that "interference" is a routine/exp…

(1) Some older satellites are still in use and this may affect them, especially if it becomes more common.

(2) Defending these norms is important to prevent chaos on the radio bands. If we can do this, why not China? Russia? Europe? Erosion of norms has real consequences when you are dealing with a scarce resource like RF spectrum.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#16

Post by stuff4ben »

Zigurd wrote: post #14
ACCount37 wrote: post #4

This reeks of SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and we know Starshield sats carry custom sensor payloads that normal Starlinks don't have.

I've been a pretty harsh critic of Starlink. I don't think it's going to compete well against terrestrial wireless links, specifically 5G FWA. But if they can actually do something interesting with distributed SAR in a large constellation, that's one of those national security breakthroughs that's worth every penny.

> national security breakthroughs

Can you explain what you mean by this? Still not sure how SAR would fit in here...

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#17

Post by ACCount37 »

Zigurd wrote: post #14
ACCount37 wrote: post #4

This reeks of SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and we know Starshield sats carry custom sensor payloads that normal Starlinks don't have.

I've been a pretty harsh critic of Starlink. I don't think it's going to compete well against terrestrial wireless links, specifically 5G FWA. But if they can actually do something interesting with distributed SAR in a large constellation, that's one of those national security breakthroughs that's worth every penny.

The issue with terrestrial wireless links is that you just aren't going to cover every inch of Earth's surface with terrestrial wireless links.

At the same time: coverage comes cheap to Starlink. Which makes it perfect for serving areas no one wants to serve. Such as rural areas, anything outside the largest cities in underdeveloped countries, the open ocean, and so it goes.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#18

Post by newsclues »

Weeenion wrote: post #8
iamnothere wrote: post #5

Another day, another important international agreement violated. I appreciate what SpaceX has done for global communications, but do not under any circumstances flagrantly violate ITU guidelines. This undermines critical agreements that allow us to (for instance) use the ISM and amateur bands without pervasive jamming. The ITU is not a political football like the rest of the UN, it’s a highly technical, competent org…

7 Million people benefit from it, 8 Billion people don't. We should have done that A LOT slower without breaking shit left and right. Edit: Because of the one downvote: It affects astronomy and a PRIVATE company has impact on a war like in ukraine. And they are violating shit just because its Musk

"These are Starshields, not Starlinks."

The number of people that benefits from security provided by the military is not the same as the number of people that subscribe to starlink internet.

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#19

Post by Weeenion »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #12
Weeenion wrote: post #10

I'm curious if you could destroy a SpaceX Satelite with a basic laser pointers. Easily enough for normal state actors and some university or engineering lab. You need only to track it and shoot your laser up there (its only 500km) and if it can't dissipate the energy fast enough, it would overheat.

Try destroying a can of soda with a laser pointer first…

Does your laser pointer has a hard upper Watt limit?

Consumer grade / privat buyable laser can easily be bought.

And would i destroy a soda can by overheating it slowly and steadily because the can has no easy way of dissipating heat and has electronics in it which are not heat resistent?

Re: A classified network of SpaceX satellites is emitting a mysterious signal

#20

Post by jmclnx »

To me, the main issue is not the signal itself, but the direction:

>The use of those frequencies to "downlink" data runs counter to standards set by the International Telecommunication Union, a United Nations agency

So, just another instance of the current admin violating an international treaty the US is part of.

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