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In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

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Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#11

Post by gsf_emergency_4 »

1dom wrote: post #9

Warning for others: it's not signposted anywhere apart from half way through the article that the end of the article is paywalled.

Can't find a pw bypass but the following slide from a recent talk somewhat summarizes (the author) Prof Baehr's stance on intellectual virtues & vices that underpins his entire(?) outlook

https://youtu.be/xBVtO0XnQNA?t=12m58s

Compare those 3+3 to Aristotle's 5: intuitive understanding (nous), scientific knowledge (episteme), wisdom (sophia), art/skill (techne), and practical wisdom (phronesis).

Or to Laozi's (n)one--- as popularized by Alan Watts, not r/Stoicism

https://old.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/5rbyzl/superior_v...

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#12

Post by squigz »

latexr wrote: post #7
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er… is that really a bad thing and is it as big a problem as you’re making it to be? Supply chains are global and what happens in one corner of the world will most certainly have an impact on your local economy. And this is how news are being reported even before the rise of smartphones. And besides, you don’t have to care. The news are just out there, free to be ignored. I just don’t see why you think that for those…

I’m not the person you replied to, but I believe you misunderstood OP’s point and are focusing on too narrow of a view regarding (what I perceive to be) their point. > is that really a bad thing and is it as big a problem as you’re making it to be? Yes, and yes. As way of example, I’m familiar with a particular subreddit which is used to promote far-right ideology in a specific country. They do it by grabbing news fr…

> Yes, and yes. As way of example, I’m familiar with a particular subreddit which is used to promote far-right ideology in a specific country. They do it by grabbing news from anywhere in the world in which an immigrant has done anything “wrong”, no matter how small, and use it to stoke xenophobia in the subreddit’s country. They are making it seem these events are more prevalent than they really are, when they aren’t even happening in that country. It is a transparent tactic which nonetheless works.

This isn't a symptom of global news dissemination though, it's a result of people being shitty and needing to grasp at any thread to justify their shitty position. Whether most of our news comes from local sources or not will not stop that. They'll just go seek out those local sources.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#13

Post by latexr »

squigz wrote: post #12
latexr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the person you replied to, but I believe you misunderstood OP’s point and are focusing on too narrow of a view regarding (what I perceive to be) their point. > is that really a bad thing and is it as big a problem as you’re making it to be? Yes, and yes. As way of example, I’m familiar with a particular subreddit which is used to promote far-right ideology in a specific country. They do it by grabbing news fr…

> Yes, and yes. As way of example, I’m familiar with a particular subreddit which is used to promote far-right ideology in a specific country. They do it by grabbing news from anywhere in the world in which an immigrant has done anything “wrong”, no matter how small, and use it to stoke xenophobia in the subreddit’s country. They are making it seem these events are more prevalent than they really are, when they aren’…

> This isn't a symptom of

It is only made possible by, which is the point. And that was a single example of the harm, TV news play much of the same stories.

Avoid taking a too narrow view of the argument. Don’t get stuck on a single part you can think of, steel man and engage with the macro point being made.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#14

Post by squigz »

latexr wrote: post #13
squigz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, and yes. As way of example, I’m familiar with a particular subreddit which is used to promote far-right ideology in a specific country. They do it by grabbing news from anywhere in the world in which an immigrant has done anything “wrong”, no matter how small, and use it to stoke xenophobia in the subreddit’s country. They are making it seem these events are more prevalent than they really are, when they aren’…

> This isn't a symptom of It is only made possible by , which is the point. And that was a single example of the harm, TV news play much of the same stories. Avoid taking a too narrow view of the argument. Don’t get stuck on a single part you can think of, steel man and engage with the macro point being made.

> It is only made possible by

Well... no, it's not only possible this way, as I just tried to point out. With or without global news programs, with or without addictive news feeds, those people will still act that way and go to great lengths to find reasons to justify it.

I did not engage with other bits because I do not generally disagree with you: watching too much news is a problem, highly addictive news feeds are a problem. I just do not believe those problems are the source of every issue we face, particularly racism - and I don't believe that solving those problems would solve those issues in any impactful way.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#15

Post by latexr »

squigz wrote: post #14
latexr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't a symptom of It is only made possible by , which is the point. And that was a single example of the harm, TV news play much of the same stories. Avoid taking a too narrow view of the argument. Don’t get stuck on a single part you can think of, steel man and engage with the macro point being made.

> It is only made possible by Well... no, it's not only possible this way, as I just tried to point out. With or without global news programs, with or without addictive news feeds, those people will still act that way and go to great lengths to find reasons to justify it. I did not engage with other bits because I do not generally disagree with you: watching too much news is a problem, highly addictive news feeds are…

> I just do not believe those problems are the source of every issue we face

No one is arguing that. Even the original commenter said:

> This is partly the reason

Partly. But they are a reason.

> and I don't believe that solving those problems would solve those issues in any impactful way.

There is no single factor which is the cause and can be solved. There are a bunch of partial factors which cause the issue. Fixing any of them would help.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#16

Post by mosura »

We never lived in a truth biased world.

This whole “post-truth” talking point exists because one power system is concerned about the erosion of their ability to impose their pile of lies on a particular society. It is itself post-truth in nature.

For cultures that were historically more honest this is more of a shock, but that only ever applied to a tiny minority globally.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#17

Post by analog8374 »

Consider the "truth level" of things.

Things you personally see = 10

Things you heard from a friend = 9

Things you heard from a stranger on the internet = 1

Things you heard from a professional talker on the internet = -10

Right now, truth is based mostly on those last 2.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#18

Post by cindyllm »

analog8374 wrote: post #17

Consider the "truth level" of things. Things you personally see = 10 Things you heard from a friend = 9 Things you heard from a stranger on the internet = 1 Things you heard from a professional talker on the internet = -10 Right now, truth is based mostly on those last 2.

[dead]

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#19

Post by JKCalhoun »

analog8374 wrote: post #17

Consider the "truth level" of things. Things you personally see = 10 Things you heard from a friend = 9 Things you heard from a stranger on the internet = 1 Things you heard from a professional talker on the internet = -10 Right now, truth is based mostly on those last 2.

You missed things you see on the internet/news. We all "saw" the World Trade Center towers come down.

Obviously, now, AI generated content sort of makes seeing on the internet not necessarily true.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#20

Post by exasperaited »

mosura wrote: post #16

We never lived in a truth biased world. This whole “post-truth” talking point exists because one power system is concerned about the erosion of their ability to impose their pile of lies on a particular society. It is itself post-truth in nature. For cultures that were historically more honest this is more of a shock, but that only ever applied to a tiny minority globally.

We lived at least in a consensus reality world, where most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true, and most people had a shared sense of the fuzzy boundaries of fact and opinion.

We now do not, and it has nothing to do with power systems [0] and everything to do with a newfound facility to mislead at scale, which states and individuals alike will use.

[0] except that elements of one power system —- west coast tech firms —- are inventing the very tools of this destruction of consensus.

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