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Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

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Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#11

Post by amanaplanacanal »

maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

This might work if they have to pay for the full cost of cleanup. Unfortunately as we've seen, limited liability means the company declares bankruptcy and the taxpayers are stuck with the bill.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#12

Post by dpc_01234 »

maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

He is right, but also the fines need to be higher, especially for repeated violations.

Ever worked in a company where you need approval from 7 separate teams to land a simple change? Just can't get anything done, no matter how useful. This is a huge problem. People generally do not understand what serialized blocking does to performance.

On the other hand the fines cited in the article seem laughably low. I don't know how much ground water was discharged, and how big of a deal it is, but at certain pricetag even billionaires will say: well, it's cheaper to get a cistern and take that water to a water treatment facility or something.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#13

Post by measurablefunc »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #8
ck2 wrote: post #5

leaving a toxic mess is a repeated part of Musk's plan with each business it's always privatize the profits, socialize the costs he's doing the same thing with Starlink which is going to vaporize many thousands of toxic satellites out of LEO into the atmosphere https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit... imagine what he's going to do on the Moon or Mars

The worst thing about space exploration is that it's not fun and optimistic like it was before this specific 2020s phase of capitalism, the best thing is that this crop of billionaires will all be dead before the real cool future stuff could happen anyway.

They're planning to live forever. All of them are investing in longevity research & some of them are young enough to live to see a few breakthroughs that might meaningfully extend their lifespan.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#14

Post by freedomben »

maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Many regulations are terrible and serve as a huge hindrance to innovation, and effectively restrict certain things to only the already-massively-rich entrepreneurs. However, (IMHO) there are a lot of regulations that are important and absolutely should be enforced up front. Finding the right balance is kind of impossible, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but even well-intended regulations often just create roadblocks and cement incumbents in a particular space.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#15

Post by wood_spirit »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #8
ck2 wrote: post #5

leaving a toxic mess is a repeated part of Musk's plan with each business it's always privatize the profits, socialize the costs he's doing the same thing with Starlink which is going to vaporize many thousands of toxic satellites out of LEO into the atmosphere https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit... imagine what he's going to do on the Moon or Mars

The worst thing about space exploration is that it's not fun and optimistic like it was before this specific 2020s phase of capitalism, the best thing is that this crop of billionaires will all be dead before the real cool future stuff could happen anyway.

Dictators discuss life-extending organ transplants https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly1w9z72r6o.amp

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#16

Post by 3D30497420 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #11
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

This might work if they have to pay for the full cost of cleanup. Unfortunately as we've seen, limited liability means the company declares bankruptcy and the taxpayers are stuck with the bill.

And a company would rather spend multiples more fighting fines and liability than they'd actually pay in fines.

Not to mention a fine won't do much for people who get sick and die.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#17

Post by Larrikin »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #8
ck2 wrote: post #5

leaving a toxic mess is a repeated part of Musk's plan with each business it's always privatize the profits, socialize the costs he's doing the same thing with Starlink which is going to vaporize many thousands of toxic satellites out of LEO into the atmosphere https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit... imagine what he's going to do on the Moon or Mars

The worst thing about space exploration is that it's not fun and optimistic like it was before this specific 2020s phase of capitalism, the best thing is that this crop of billionaires will all be dead before the real cool future stuff could happen anyway.

Xi and Putin were caught on a hot mic talking about swapping out their organs with fresh ones. I assume from their local political enemies.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#18

Post by _ea1k »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #8
ck2 wrote: post #5

leaving a toxic mess is a repeated part of Musk's plan with each business it's always privatize the profits, socialize the costs he's doing the same thing with Starlink which is going to vaporize many thousands of toxic satellites out of LEO into the atmosphere https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit... imagine what he's going to do on the Moon or Mars

The worst thing about space exploration is that it's not fun and optimistic like it was before this specific 2020s phase of capitalism, the best thing is that this crop of billionaires will all be dead before the real cool future stuff could happen anyway.

It actually is fun and optimistic.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#19

Post by ceejayoz »

> “Given the extraordinary number of violations, NDEP has decided to exercise its discretion to reduce the penalty to two $5,000 violations per permit, which it believes offers a reasonable penalty that will still serve to deter future non-compliance conduct,” regulators wrote in the letter.

The fuck?

"You were driving so fast we gave you a discount on the speeding fine."

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#20

Post by awesome_dude »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #12
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

He is right, but also the fines need to be higher, especially for repeated violations. Ever worked in a company where you need approval from 7 separate teams to land a simple change? Just can't get anything done, no matter how useful. This is a huge problem. People generally do not understand what serialized blocking does to performance. On the other hand the fines cited in the article seem laughably low. I don't kno…

Him being right, or wrong, is a bold call to make.

But all he's saying is he wants to run his company the way tech entrepreneurs have been for a while - "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission" which they like because it's favored toward them, and, by the time a regulator has caught up, they have made a pile of money, or lost it all and gone.

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