Live data from Hacker News

Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

theguardian.com

11–20 of 240 posts

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#11
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

I think that's not quite the way consulting should, and to some extent does, work.

The ideal goal of consultancies like Deloitte's is that they hire a small number of people with experience and combine them with a larger number of young bright people and have them come in to review and advise organizations. The people with experience (so who have worked in that field before) direct the engagement and the leg work is done by the juniors, producing a report for the customer.

As to why companies would choose to use consultancies, there's a variety of reasons, some good, some less than good.

- Outside perspective & experience. The consultancy has done engagements with other companies in your field and can provide that experience.

- Neutral point of view. The consultancy should be neutral to any internal politics within the organization.

- Appeal to authority. Many times organizations use consultancies to provide evidence to external stakeholders that the thing they want to do is the right thing.

Now that's not to say that it always (or even often) works out that way, but in theory at least, there are some not terrible reasons.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#12
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

I think that's not quite the way consulting should, and to some extent does, work. The ideal goal of consultancies like Deloitte's is that they hire a small number of people with experience and combine them with a larger number of young bright people and have them come in to review and advise organizations. The people with experience (so who have worked in that field before) direct the engagement and the leg work is…

Ah, OK, so there are actually people with real industry experience there? What happens with the young bright people when they are not young any more though? Are they expected to leave the company to gather real world experience or are they just promoted to "experts" without seeing anything outside their consultancy?

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's not quite the way consulting should, and to some extent does, work. The ideal goal of consultancies like Deloitte's is that they hire a small number of people with experience and combine them with a larger number of young bright people and have them come in to review and advise organizations. The people with experience (so who have worked in that field before) direct the engagement and the leg work is…

Ah, OK, so there are actually people with real industry experience there? What happens with the young bright people when they are not young any more though? Are they expected to leave the company to gather real world experience or are they just promoted to "experts" without seeing anything outside their consultancy?

Well they get some experience doing the consultancy work of course, and yep lots go off to industry after 2-3 years.

IME (Worked for E&Y some years back) about 80% of people who started as juniors would have left after 3-4 years with the other 20% staying to try and make partner.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's not quite the way consulting should, and to some extent does, work. The ideal goal of consultancies like Deloitte's is that they hire a small number of people with experience and combine them with a larger number of young bright people and have them come in to review and advise organizations. The people with experience (so who have worked in that field before) direct the engagement and the leg work is…

Ah, OK, so there are actually people with real industry experience there? What happens with the young bright people when they are not young any more though? Are they expected to leave the company to gather real world experience or are they just promoted to "experts" without seeing anything outside their consultancy?

The trick is they pay the young bright people peanuts relative to what they bill them out for, so then market forces rotate the majority of them out of the consulting org automatically, often into positions at the companies they consulted for or into their own businesses.

So why do the young bright people do it to begin with? They get to work with experienced people, broad learning experiences in diverse industries, networking (= future job prospects), etc.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#16
The number of people managing people managing people who actually do the work is quite high in some of these firms. The partners are rolling in cash, while the actual consultants are hoping to climb the ladder. In some geographies, this has created cliques that keep each other in positions and they make money together while strangling any up and coming competition from below.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#17
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Well, when you have a bad idea you want to implement but don't want to take responsibility for it, you keep on hiring consultants until you hear what you want to hear. Quality of the consulting is irrelevant and interns or AI will do just fine. When the project inevitably implodes, you blame the consultant. Your own employees will give you advice on what's best for the company, not necessary what's best for you so you stand on their neck until they quiet down and learn their place. By the time anyone figures out what happened you already moved on with outstanding resume bullet point.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#18
post #10

AI is a trap too sweet to ignore. Its ruining young folks future by removing the hard effort part of learning, which then builds more resistant character which is more able to wade through daily crap of our adult lives. Some sort of patience with life, its not a skill that comes on its own. And clearly its (almost) everywhere, including companies who should do and know better. AI will make humanity more lazy seems to…

Indeed. This is something that isn’t said a lot.

A person who has been in an industry for 10+ years will be fine from exposure to LLM’s. Because they already built the discipline. Frankly if you’re an expert I don’t see where the value of an LLM fits.

People keep talking about productivity increases. But that just speaks to the quantity. What about the quality?

It’s tiresome to see people who just don’t get this.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#19
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

When The Government Asks For An Independent Consultation | Utopia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M7SzS_5PlQ

pretty much covers it in under two minutes.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#20
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Aside from the thing where it's useful to have an outside (expensive) influence to help make your decisions sound more confident than they actually are, a genuinely useful side of consulting is as a form of knowledge laundering between companies.

Let's say you're a supermarket chain. You have lots of problems that only a small number of other companies - your competitors! - also need to solve.

If you hire a big enough consulting company, they will have a large amount of internalized knowledge relevant to those problems that they gained through previous projects working with your competitors.

Of course, they're never going to deliberately reveal other company's internal secrets, or directly assign people to work with you who worked last week with your competition... but industry expertise and "best practices" still flow through these channels.

Post reply on HN