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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

riksbank.se

11–20 of 581 posts

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#11
post #4
post #3

offline key signing and broadcasting later should be a simple thing although heavily misunderstood, this is built into cryptocurrencies since day 1 (many critics have long thought crypto requires power and internet access, many proponents also don't know otherwise) with card networks learning from competition and functionally being public-only keys, this should be even simpler to implement

Yes, but the merchant has to have a way to check for double-spending, or otherwise verify that the signed txn they have been given represents money that can be "taken to the bank". Checking the signature on some blob that says "this be money" is not enough.

True. But if the system is implemented by a country this could be implemented using the law system and insurances.

For example, when each transaction is done, both parties might keep a cryptographic proof which they are required to submit once they are online again.

Failing to submit could result in a small fine (to encourage submission) and double spending which can then be detected could result in a large fine (or even a prison sentence), for example.

There is, perhaps, a privacy issue, just like with blockchain. But it's not more of an issue than online transactions.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#12
post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Restaurant POCs have an offline mode. They had to ask my zip code so I suppose it just counts as a "card not present" transaction that goes through later. Does present the question of whether that data is temporarily stored unencrypted or if it's immediately encrypted to be sent to the bank when it comes online

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#13
post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Debit cards are most definitely accepted on planes.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#14
post #3

offline key signing and broadcasting later should be a simple thing although heavily misunderstood, this is built into cryptocurrencies since day 1 (many critics have long thought crypto requires power and internet access, many proponents also don't know otherwise) with card networks learning from competition and functionally being public-only keys, this should be even simpler to implement

What cryptocurrencies work offline without Internet access to the ledger?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#15
post #4
post #3

offline key signing and broadcasting later should be a simple thing although heavily misunderstood, this is built into cryptocurrencies since day 1 (many critics have long thought crypto requires power and internet access, many proponents also don't know otherwise) with card networks learning from competition and functionally being public-only keys, this should be even simpler to implement

Yes, but the merchant has to have a way to check for double-spending, or otherwise verify that the signed txn they have been given represents money that can be "taken to the bank". Checking the signature on some blob that says "this be money" is not enough.

I figure you can ‘solve’ it socially and legally by treating double spend while offline the same as writing a bad check. Recipients of offline transactions knowing the risk would limit it to small amounts and or emergencies.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#16
post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Re paying on the plane: yes, that's how credit cards work. The question of the solvency of the customer becomes the problem of the payment processor.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#17
post #2

> The online function shall apply to physical payment cards and accompanying PIN code when purchasing essential goods such as food, medicine and fuel. Is this a typo where they meant to say “the offline function”? If I’m reading this right, the goal is to allow food, fuel, and medicine purchases with card + PIN in offline mode. Seems like a reasonable goal. I wonder what the technical details will look like. Will the…

I assume it's a typo or equivalent mistake.

EMV (chip cards) can have a small amount of local smarts, so it is typical for example to insist on going online for a large transaction or if the card has performed too many offline transactions since last going online. The card maker decides these rules, so the bank gets to ensure the cards it issues to customers meet whatever requirements it has decided upon, balancing fraud risk against problems with loss of connectivity or services being down.

So I doubt they'd bother doing some sort of ad hoc revocation technique.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#18
post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Exactly like that most likely, I am old enough to remember those machines where credit cards left their mark on the receipt, that is why their numbers are higher than the card.

Here,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#19
post #13
post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Debit cards are most definitely accepted on planes.

Even without internet connection?

Edit: OK maybe there's different level of trust and some take a leap of faith :) In my experience debit didn't work but it appears that its not the same everywhere.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#20
post #2

> The online function shall apply to physical payment cards and accompanying PIN code when purchasing essential goods such as food, medicine and fuel. Is this a typo where they meant to say “the offline function”? If I’m reading this right, the goal is to allow food, fuel, and medicine purchases with card + PIN in offline mode. Seems like a reasonable goal. I wonder what the technical details will look like. Will the…

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